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 Dog food and the FDA

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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Dog food and the FDA Empty
PostSubject: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyThu May 27, 2021 8:33 pm

Recently, on FaceBook a user posted this letter:

Dog food and the FDA Foodan10

Now, since I regularly post the alerts regarding recalls I think it's appropriate for us with pets to be aware of the facts and take whatever actions we think necessary.

However I don't appreciate scare mongering.  Whether DCM is a valid concern for us with Sibes, I'll leave to your gentle interpretation of the facts to be found on the web - or elsewhere.  (( I will note that Siberian is not present in either of the linked documents. ))

CNBC takes a stab at interpreting the data provided in summary by the FDA but the jury is still out on the cause of DCM in breeds which are historically not associated with it.

_________________
Dog food and the FDA GY3Hm5Dog food and the FDA REEum5Dog food and the FDA 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyThu May 27, 2021 9:37 pm

So didnt i post the same article over a year ago? I did notice it was from 2019. Last i heard, the speculation was pea or lentil protein but i repeat that was speculation. Or something to do with the fillers used in grain free food.

I worry about dcm, mostly with shadow.
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyThu May 27, 2021 10:59 pm

You may have. The investigation has been ongoing since 2014 without resolution that I can find.

It never hurts to resurrect older articles that have ongoing research just so people can look at the new stuff.

_________________
Dog food and the FDA GY3Hm5Dog food and the FDA REEum5Dog food and the FDA 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

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Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyThu May 27, 2021 11:01 pm

This is more a compilation but updated atleast https://www.petproductnews.com/blog/new-study-adds-fuel-to-dcm-and-grain-free-dog-food-controversy/article_b93a1fcc-81b1-11eb-b327-57e8fd4ab0c0.html
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amymeme
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amymeme

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyFri May 28, 2021 3:40 am

I do know my vets office used to sell taste of the wild and no longer does. And cautions against using grain free food.
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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyFri May 28, 2021 8:34 am

My vet warns agains ole roy. I speculate it has to do with the filler issue because purina true instinct grain free was also connected. I noticed that the fda had a legume speculation.

Years ago there was a dcm issue in cats that turned out to be from taurine deficiency. Really makes me wonder if some additive/filler is causing something to not be absorbed.

This could also be a coverup. The vet world knew YEARS before mad cow disease popped up that cattle feeding practices were going to cause a big problem. It was seen in other animals when they were basically forced into cannibalism by their feed. Happens to humans. And they still do it to chickens (non organic chicken feed has chicken byproducts in it). The other thing that points at cover up was that 2 of the vets doing the dcm studies had ties to major grain included brands so its an unclean hands/conflict of interest situation.

I have contemplated going back to purina pro plan for squirt and splinter because they dont have food issues but its a pain in the ass to feed dogs different foods and storage space i dont have.
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cpschwerin
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Female Join date : 2018-08-08
Location : Brooklyn

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyThu Jun 03, 2021 11:25 pm

So does anyone have recommendations on what to feed my husky? I've been feeding Juno Buffalo Blue wet food and Merrick dry food for years.
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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyThu Jun 03, 2021 11:32 pm

I feed essence, but i have 1 dog with major allergies so 90% of dog food is unacceptable.
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sibhus
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Join date : 2013-10-02

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyFri Jun 04, 2021 12:16 am

One thing thats important to realize about this article that every dog food manufacturer recommended is a direct funder of veterinary schools and training, as a result, veterinarians receive their largest profit margins from the "recommended" manufacturers. Hills and Royal Canin and Purina have been struggling saleswise against the plethora of "boutique" dog food manufacturers and anyone whom truly understands ingredients in dog food knows they are inferior to several on this list most notably any of the Orijen/Acana products.

I think if you ask any nutritionist that has no vested interest in the veterinary community, they will find the ingredients in Orijen to be far superior than Hills. Theres no quantitive data to show how the vet recommended foods are better because they have none, so I wouldn't give too much into this posting. I have never personally known any dog owner whose lost their dog due to dcm related to certain foods and I dont think we have anyone on this forum that has?

On a different note, my 8year diabetic husky is doing very well on Wellness Core and did well on Orijen as well.

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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyFri Jun 04, 2021 12:32 am

I would do raw...too expensive for 4 dogs. I also like the oc raw rabbit and produce but also very expensive for 4 dogs. I use the raw freezdried as treats
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msav
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Join date : 2014-01-31

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyFri Jun 04, 2021 2:47 pm

I am appalled that a Vet would actually engage in conversations about Diet. The only training Vets get is from the Pet food industry. The pet food industry does not care about your pet, only their bottom line.
They have too much money and are so corrupt that they pay off the FDA and AAFCO to make laws that benefit them.

The fact that the pet food industry buys pet meal that is derived from roadkill, euthanized animals and spoiled supermarket meat and have paid to have laws made to allow them to still do this is proof.

if you are interested please see https://truthaboutpetfood.com/

I have to buy imported Dog food from Italy to avoid the corruption of the good old FDA and US pet food industries.

If anyone is feeding anything other their their own sourced RAW that is human grade, I BEG you to go to the above web page. For the sake of your animals.

here are some other links
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/shocking-truth-about-dog-food/
https://www.rover.com/blog/dog-food-expose/
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/surge-of-pet-deaths-linked-to-the-most-common-pet-food-ingredient-301235116.html

https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&rlz=1C1ONGR_enUS956US956&sxsrf=ALeKk02RACJw_eT2IlaSKp_IEKN-6RcDoA:1622848943224&q=The+Truth+about+pet+food+documentary&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOpaO2j__wAhVHCjQIHaE8DZMQ1QIwGXoECCsQAQ&biw=1455&bih=1013


Last edited by msav on Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amymeme
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amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyFri Jun 04, 2021 3:42 pm

Biting. My. Tongue.

Or, shall I say, clenching my fingers...
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cpschwerin
Newborn
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Female Join date : 2018-08-08
Location : Brooklyn

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptySat Jun 05, 2021 3:09 pm

I'm with you Amymeme! Biting my tongue. Thanks for all the recommendations. I did want to go raw with Juno in the beginning, but I wasn't sure what to go with. No that he's four and likes his food I've been reluctant to change his routine. However, he has gained his COVID 10lbs like a lot of us and I'm thinking now might be a good time to go raw. So does anyone have a not too complicated way to go raw for a four-year-old?

Many thanks!
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptySat Jun 05, 2021 8:01 pm

@amymeme I really should bite my tongue but I have a few words to say about the way this thread has gone.

First off I really dislike absolutes.  Contrary to the comment that "grain free is the best" dogs aren't obligate carnivores, they readily and willing eat grasses, grains ... one of their first choices after they've down a prey animal is to eat the stomach and its contents - not the action of an obligate carnivore.

Secondly using my quoted comment that "grain free is best" ... yeh, well says who?  That's the type of absolute statement that will get my goat.  Another is that the statement that the sky is blue ... sometimes, at sunrise and sunset it's often golden or red.  But you'll have people who make that type of statement without anything to back it up.  People have an opinion, I'm fine with that; when that opinion is stated as a fact without corroboration then I tend to lose any respect for the person or their opinion.

There are some bad dog food manufacturers out there, I have no doubt who some of them are (a matter for another time and place), I also know there are some who are good at what they do - make a premium dog food.  The thing is, we're all human and we all make mistakes.  If a bag of grain sets in storage and goes bad, it's hard to detect and when it goes into a batch of food it will contaminate the whole batch ... we expect that quality control will get a handle on it before it reaches the distribution chain ... but we all are human.  What bothers me is when a manufacturer says that they're making a voluntary recall ... because the Department of Agriculture of <someplace> determined that this batch of food contains toxins that may kill our dogs.  It's a voluntary recall simply because they chose to recall it before the FDA ordered them to.

What I was trying to emphasize with the original message in this thread was stated in "However I don't appreciate scare mongering. "  If you have hard solid fact, I'll be glad to read and consider it; if your idea of fact is "it's obvious that all commercial dog food is evil" please don't waste my time.  It's not obvious!

I've stepped back from this forum, it's quite possible that if it continues on the way it has I'll step off it ... at my age, I don't need the aggravation.

Oh hell, while I'm at it ... ETA
@msav wrote:
I am appalled that a Vet would actually engage in conversations about Diet. The only training Vets get is from the Pet food industry. The pet food industry does not care about your pet, only their bottom line.
If that's the case where you are then I'm sorry for you.  Of the three local vets, one (the one I use) sells Science Diet as a convenience to her clients.  She doesn't push it ... it's there if someone wants to buy it.  The other two don't have any food products and one doesn't even have anything to sell beside his services.  
The two vet operation I use (mother / son) is excellent.  They read CBC and will suggest that a client might want to reconsider the food they're feeding their dogs.  Seldom will they recommend a particular food but they will suggest what to look for.
We have a small University in Alpine that has a General Animal Sciences program that some use as entry into the Vet program at Texas A&M.  While we might be a meat producing area, most ranchers have dogs and cats and I'm told (not first hand experience) that there is discussion about what constitutes "good food" for all of the various animals.

I will agree that the companies that make up the pet food industry are interested in their bottom line - what business isn't? - when their product continuously hits the FDA recall list sales are going to decline and that affects their bottom line.  It's to their benefit to try to maintain quality.

_________________
Dog food and the FDA GY3Hm5Dog food and the FDA REEum5Dog food and the FDA 2zERm5
“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”
Corey Ford
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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

Female Join date : 2018-10-22
Location : Colorado

Dog food and the FDA Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptySun Jun 06, 2021 5:25 pm

Just to throw it out there... dead, diseased, downers, and old food does not go into dog food and its legally not allowed in dog food. That "meat meal" product goes into fertilizer. Years ago some companies thought that by saving a few dollars they could use that and phenobarbital popped up. Dogs died and it stopped. Then it was melamine in gluten from china traced to one specific manufacturer (who went to jail for it). In any industry even non pet related, there are a few random bad actors. Does not mean the whole industry is bad. But a good example is what just happened with bob baffert and the Kentucky derby. 1 person effected the integrity of an entire industry.

Do your homework and dont be stupid and trust everything you read at face value. And dogs are not wolves, and wolves are not true carnivores so anything based off 1800s era biology that claims either dogs or wolves are true carnivores can not be trusted.
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msav
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Join date : 2014-01-31

Dog food and the FDA Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptySun Jun 06, 2021 8:59 pm

@Lostmaniac wrote:
Just to throw it out there...  dead, diseased, downers, and old food does not go into dog food and its legally not allowed in dog food. That "meat meal" product goes into fertilizer.  Years ago some companies thought that by saving a few dollars they could use that and phenobarbital popped up. Dogs died and it stopped. Then it was melamine in gluten from china traced to one specific manufacturer (who went to jail for it). In any industry even non pet related, there are a few random bad actors. Does not mean the whole industry is bad. But a good example is what just happened with bob baffert and the Kentucky derby. 1 person effected the integrity of an entire industry.

Do your homework and dont be stupid and trust everything you read at face value.  And dogs are not wolves, and wolves are not true carnivores so anything based off 1800s era biology that claims either dogs or wolves are true carnivores can not be trusted.  


While most dog food manufacturers have stopped using meal from rendering farms. It is still legal to use it and low quality dog foods still use it.

It does not change the fact that many dog food manufacturers showed up to protest the changes proposed to make it illegal to used rendered meat in dog food. you would be surprised what companies challenged the law. Why challenged it unless you are using rendered meat in some way.

I have been following the law changes in dog food for years.

but I am not going to make any more posts and will unfollow this thread as it seems that nobody wants to hear the truth.

keep you head in the sand. if you want. that is what the pet food companies want anyways.

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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptySun Jun 06, 2021 9:12 pm

By that reasoning i should also be worried about my beef, since most plants dont want usda inspections, even without the shortage. Its industry protecting itself from oversight.

And i do know of place that does use illegal carcasses. Mostly horses that have been euthanized and sick cows. Its a local company and they sell bags for $10 for an $100 lb bag. I know people who have had dogs die from it. That is a you get what you pay for situation.
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TwisterII
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TwisterII

Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyMon Jun 07, 2021 1:58 pm

Every dog is different. You need to feed what works for your dog. One of my dogs is fed raw and one is fed Diamond Naturals. I've fed everything from the low end of dog food to the high end of dog food. These are what work for the dogs that I have. No study is going to deem "the best" for every single dog out there.

My vet hasn't told anyone to change anything based on the DCM incident. The FDA has literally told people not to change anything unless your vet thinks you should and my vet has told people there are simply too many unknown variables to make any decision about the validity of the claims of grain-free being "bad". More than likely people are loading their precious pooches full of fancy toppers and treats "spoiling" them and throwing the balance of the diet off thus leading to the host of medical issues that now face so many dogs outside of just DCM.

Whatever anyone feeds there will be no bashing tolerated on this forum. Civil discussions of supported facts is fine as long as civil but at the end of the day only we who live with our dogs knows what is working for them or isn't.

_________________
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Lostmaniac
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Lostmaniac

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PostSubject: Re: Dog food and the FDA   Dog food and the FDA EmptyMon Jun 07, 2021 11:13 pm

I guess my biggest worry is cancer, and cancer inducing preservatives and the long term effect on everything of genetically modified basically everything. And not just in my dog food but in my food also.

The other day i was reading about pesticides and antibiotics that are banned in both the eu and the usa being found in imported fish. And its perfectly legal because it is legal in the country the fish were farmed in. Food/feed safety and quality really is a big issue worldwide. Not just for what ends up on your plate or your dogs bowl but also for the safety of the workers and the animals becoming your food. If you have ever driven by a perdue chicken farm in the summer you will know what im talking about. Cant be good or healthy for chickens which means you're eating unhealthy chicken.

Shadow has an insane number of allergies and spider needs high protein low carb and i try to feed everyone the same thing. Squirt would do just fine on anything including cans of pork and beans and chicken feet and leftovers. She has been on that diet before. And even now, unless its something she cant have i dont throw food out because she has a cast iron stomach. But that same diet would kill spider.
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