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 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?

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dest0
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PostSubject: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:59 am

Hi Guys,

I'm getting a siberian KC registered puppy (Currently 4 weeks) when it reaches 8-9 weeks.

We noticed that her eyes are a bit 'odd' but so are a lot of puppies on the internet when I had a proper look, and wondered whether this is normal and would straighten out in the coming few weeks or should she be proper vet tested or whether it's a problem?

Her granddad was hip/eye tested and had no problems, and comes from a very good bloodline of Champions, etc..



Please advise!
Thanks.
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dest0
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:01 am

Incase images are not loading:

http: http://imgur.com/1zLytLi

http: http://imgur.com/6IBsjV8
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:43 pm

Just because her granddad has good blood doesn't mean the parents do. I would want the parents to be tested also. Sometimes eye deviations will work themselves out as the muscles become stronger with age. If they don't then these breeders really need to take a closer look at the dogs they are breeding. Some breeds are really prone to crossed or deviant eyes and it is hereditary in them. It isn't so much a genetic thing in huskies but we don't want it to become a genetic thing because of people who are breeding dogs they aren't properly tested. Many cross eyed dogs get around and see just fine, and no farther off kilter than her eyes are looking I wouldn't expect it to affect her quality of life. I would still get her tested though to be 100% sure that she doesn't have other underlying eye issues. Hereditary cataracts are very prone in huskies. You will also want to document all of these things to keep these people honoring any health guarantees they may be offering.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:30 pm

Jenn gave some good points, I know a cross eyed husky and she is great, has some vision issues but gets around ok.

I would also have your own vet look at her before you take her home. I would also want to see the health test on the parents.

keep us updated.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:14 pm

Honestly I can barely tell, the vet should be able to tell you. My mother has a cross eyed chihuahua and he gets around fine.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:54 pm

I am going to be the bad guy in this thread.....firstly if the mom and dad haven't been health tested, as in hips and eyes tested, and no showing nor working to back the mom and dad who cares what grandpa did or had. This puppy indeed looks to have some issues, and frankly I would not risk purchasing this animal, because years down the road, after health warranties have expired, is when you will face medical issues because of poor breeding practices. And those health issues are costly. I am assuming when you say KC you mean AKC registered, and in reality it isn't worth the paper that AKC is printed on, why? Because as long as you can prove lineage and the animal looks like the breed stated that is all AKC cares about. Having AKC papers does not mean an animal was bred correctly, doesn't mean the animal comes from a respected, quality breeder. Doesn't mean there is no genetic, hereditary health issues. Most health guarantees that breeders give is up to 2 years of age, and most commonly known health issues do not arise until after a dog is over 2 years old. OFA testing is not recommended until 2 years of age. Juvenile cataracts are a problem within the husky breed, and again needs to be tested at around 2 years of age, and typically that is the age many who have the issue get the issue. Please reconsider getting this lovely pup, unless you have money to burn.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:42 pm

Dest0, I'm not going to disagree with any of the comments that have been made so far ... they're on point and points that you need to consider. However if you Google 'lazy eyed siberian husky' you'll find plenty of people raising the same types of questions. Sometimes it just takes more time (in a dog / human / cat) for the muscles to develop so that the eye's track right.

That said, if you don't have the immediate parents pedigree then all the paperwork for the grandparents is useless ...

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dest0
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:07 am

Thanks for all your responses as they shed the light on so many aspects I wasn't aware of.

Parents are vet tested with no problems but haven't been hip/eye tested (And I haven't seen the vet tests for them but I will request them before buying the puppy), only the grand father which you guys made clear that is irrelevant.

So when I go to see the puppy again in about 3 weeks, should we go down to the vet and have her tested right there and then? Do I take the vet's word for it?

Also, if it takes a few weeks for the muscle to strengthen, but sometimes it doesn't, do I take the risk or do I not?

I've seen quite a few huskies that have the same thing at an early age.

Your input is very appreciated on this.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:51 am

I'll try to answer these, with my opinion, as best I can.

Since you're concerned, if the breeder will allow, I'd ask to take the pup to *my* vet.  Their vet has too much invested in them as a client - and while I'm not saying that he'd not be truthful or have the qualifications your vet does (which I realize I'm strongly inferring) I'd be more comfortable if my vet were the one to give an opinion.  Assuming that your vet is reasonably close (not four states away) if they refuse, I'd be looking for another breeder.  I'd expect that they'd require some fee to ensure you either pay in total for the pup or bring him back.

They should have a buyers contract that guarantees both of you certain rights and responsibilities.  Among these should be the right to return the pup for refund if genetic defects present themselves within ( X ) months.  It's difficult to return a pup to whom you've become attached, it's great that you're looking at the pup now so you can make that determination now.

Slight change of topic, you said that the pup was KC registered and as Renee says, the paper that that is printed on isn't worth a whole lot.  If you're thinking about showing, working or breeding you want, not only the pedigree but the health records for all dogs involved.

My impression is that you're purchasing a pet, in that case don't worry about the pedigree - you don't need it.  

Now, there's no way to phrase this that isn't condescending - your 'breeder' sounds a bit 'sketchy' to me.  If they were a working breeder they'd be working / showing their dogs and would have the health certs on all their dogs since they don't, I have to wonder how qualified they *really*are as breeders.  It really doesn't take a lot of smarts to put two dogs together to produce pups - it takes an amazing amount of knowledge to consider which two to put together to produce pups that improve the breed.

You ask "Should you get this pup?"  Hold my feet to the fire and you'll still get this answer: Do your homework on the qualifications of the breeder, ensure that the pup is as free as possible of any genetic defects and is currently in excellent health - then make up your own mind.

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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:51 pm

I can't add much to what Al has said. Something that I will mention tho, when I purchased my new puppy from a reputable breeder people died when they found out how much I paid for her, and I explained this.....If I were to have paid a cheaper price from a byb the parents of the pup would not have been hip and eye tested. There were some cute pups that I had seen that were $600, from a byb, they never did those tests. They offered a 12 month health guarantee, but that was it, had one set of shots and dewormer. The quality breeder I paid almost $1700 for, with that, parents were hip and eye tested. He offered 2 puppy obedience classes, microchipping, 2 sets of puppy shots, 4 rounds dewormer, partial potty and crate trained, had been evaluated for temperament, offered life time obedience help if needed, 2 year health guarantee, and would take the pup/dog back if for any reason I was no longer able to care for her. My breeder is a phone call away for any help I may need, and has honest desire to keep up with the puppies he has produced. That is a reputable breeder. In both cases I would have AKC papers for the pup. My breeder also works his animals, and the male has also been shown in conformation.

Now I am going to mention a member of this forum, she has shared he difficult time with her husky, she has had to get her 2 year old, and believe he was a little over a year when she noticed his problems, cataract surgery, it was in the thousands of dollars to do this surgery, and she will have to do the other eye eventually. sure even with great breeders issues can happen, but you want the best possible chance of having a healthy pup and dog. Pay now or pay later is my motto when it comes to puppy buying.

I know if I ever have an issue with my puppy, my breeder will be there for me. I just do not foresee an issue happening, because he waited until his pair were 2 years old before producing pups, he understands the proper pairing to better the breed. He even refrained me from buying the pup I at first wanted, because she did have an issue, that wasn't going to be a potential life long issue, but just the same he did not want me to incur more money by getting her, because it would cost me more money to fix her issue. That is what a good breeder does. A good breeder would not be offering up this husky pup that you want to anyone, until his/her eye issue has cleared up. That is the way I see it, this breeder, should have told you, no this pup is not for sale at this time because of possible health issues, and I do not want my puppy buyer to have to deal with the cost of potentially correcting this issue.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:39 pm

MiyasMomma wrote:
I can't add much to what Al has said. Something that I will mention tho, when I purchased my new puppy from a reputable breeder people died when they found out how much I paid for her, and I explained this.....If I were to have paid a cheaper price from a byb the parents of the pup would not have been hip and eye tested. There were some cute pups that I had seen that were $600, from a byb, they never did those tests. They offered a 12 month health guarantee, but that was it, had one set of shots and dewormer. The quality breeder I paid almost $1700 for, with that, parents were hip and eye tested. He offered 2 puppy obedience classes, microchipping, 2 sets of puppy shots, 4 rounds dewormer, partial potty and crate trained, had been evaluated for temperament, offered life time obedience help if needed, 2 year health guarantee, and would take the pup/dog back if for any reason I was no longer able to care for her. My breeder is a phone call away for any help I may need, and has honest desire to keep up with the puppies he has produced. That is a reputable breeder. In both cases I would have AKC papers for the pup. My breeder also works his animals, and the male has also been shown in conformation.

Now I am going to mention a member of this forum, she has shared he difficult time with her husky, she has had to get her 2 year old, and believe he was a little over a year when she noticed his problems, cataract surgery, it was in the thousands of dollars to do this surgery, and she will have to do the other eye eventually. sure even with great breeders issues can happen, but you want the best possible chance of having a healthy pup and dog. Pay now or pay later is my motto when it comes to puppy buying.

I know if I ever have an issue with my puppy, my breeder will be there for me. I just do not foresee an issue happening, because he waited until his pair were 2 years old before producing pups, he understands the proper pairing to better the breed. He even refrained me from buying the pup I at first wanted, because she did have an issue, that wasn't going to be a potential life long issue, but just the same he did not want me to incur more money by getting her, because it would cost me more money to fix her issue. That is what a good breeder does. A good breeder would not be offering up this husky pup that you want to anyone, until his/her eye issue has cleared up. That is the way I see it, this breeder, should have told you, no this pup is not for sale at this time because of possible health issues, and I do not want my puppy buyer to have to deal with the cost of potentially correcting this issue.

Wow $1700 is not bad at all, my sister paid $2600 for her male GSD, he's the runt and he's smaller than my husky.. (they're a few weeks apart).
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:49 pm

Yep, that is how I felt on her cost too. Especially for what my breeder offers in return for that price. Comparison wise, my Sofie at 11 months old is 23 inches and 70 pounds and my 3.5 years old husky is 26 inches and 65 pounds. My gsd is a tank, lol. But I wanted to show people the difference between a byb or not so good breeder vs what a great breeder offers for their pups. It goes beyond price and a piece of AKC paper. Every breeder, regardless of what dog breed, should offer close to what my gsd breeder offers, maybe not the training package, because he is a trainer, but everything else he does with his litters should be done with all litters produced.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:11 pm

Did the breeder even mention the eyes to you, or did they kind of just wait for you to say something about it? I know with our breeder, they gave us a status report with every vet visit, let us know if something was up, and walked us thru test results, plans of action, etc.

If they didn't point out any potential abnormalities with the pups eyes, I would say right then and there that I wouldn't buy a pup from them, period. From the vibe I'm getting they do sound sketch, and as adorable as he might be its not worth getting a cute pup and watching him suffer because of health issues in the future. Aside from the obvious ethical issues of byb obviously.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:27 pm

While it may sound like we're being the classic grinch, to put it simply, we really want you to get a puppy that you're going to be happy with - remember, you're committing yourself to 10-15 years of having this pup around. Things will happen, that's a given, let's avoid all we can.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:59 am

I very much appreciate every piece of information you guys have provided me with.

From what most of you have said, he does NOT sound like a reputable breeder, and he DID NOT mention the puppy's eyes, infact, when I texted him (As we live far away from each other), he said 'the pup's eyes look fine, I'll have her vet checked at 7 weeks).

If I haven't already paid a £100 deposit, I would have dismissed this, so here's what I'm thinking and tell me to whether to go through with this or if I should just forget about my deposit and move on to a more reputable breeder:

1. Have the puppy vet checked before purchase, and if the vet says any negative, ask for my money back.
2. Ask for the parents to be vet checked and see papers proving it
3. Ask for X period of time insurance for the puppy with full refund in case of genetic defects

I've seen the parents, they look great and in good health, the puppy seems absolutely fine, it's just her eyes and tbh a lot of puppies I've seen online at this age seem to have the same exact problem.

And most breeders here in the UK seem to be breeding for money, non of the TENS that I have called seem to have the values that you guys are referring to.. So I guess it's not the same like it is in the USA.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:13 pm

The UK Kennel Club has a surprisingly interesting topic about the Husky.  On this page (which was a pain to get to) they list the few accredited Siberian Husky Breeders in the UK (from all over Scotland, Wales and GB proper).  Even if you don't buy from them, you might want to chat with one who's 'local' to you, just for information.  Most breeders will spend a bit of time simply to help you find the right dog for you - of course it helps if they have a litter and you're thinking about buying from them.

The Siberian Husky Club of Great Britain has a page that explains the health tests needed for the breed and a decent explanation of why they're needed.  I was disappointed in this site since it doesn't seem to have been updated recently and I found no links to breeders.

You don't say where in he UK you are - and knowing roughly your location can help us a lot when we're looking for information for you - I took a look at the London RSPCA which has 5 Huskies available for adoption (and two that are absolutely BEAUTIFUL!!)

After looking around the rescue sites in the UK, I see that you have the same problem there that we do here in the states - people decide to get this beautiful puppy and then have no idea why it's become such a horrendous dog.  Sibes take a lot of work (unless you're really lucky and find one who, like my two, are happy to just lay around till it's walk time!)

I'm not sure if I was any help or not, mostly this is just noting things I found to satisfy my own curiosity.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:43 am

Thanks for all your responses and support with this as it was really helpful.

I've followed your advice and dismissed going ahead with this breeder as they seem dodgy and not trustworthy, he doesn't even answer my texts or calls..(Lost my £100 deposit but oh well).

I went on the Kennel Club website as advised above and found this gorgeous puppy from an assured breeder who know exactly what they're doing and they're breeding to improve the bloodline not to make money.

She's got wonderful temperament and tons of personality.

Pics below, thanks again!



http: http://imgur.com/a/dkHU6
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:57 am

Oops, sorry you lost your deposit, but if he's not returning your phone calls now, just imagine what it would be like if you ever have a problem with your pup where you really need help.  

I'm sure you'll be happier with the experience with a good breeder - they make everything so much easier.  

I presume you mean it's the puppy who has a wonderful temperament, but it was so much idiocy to read that as the breeder instead Smile

That first picture - where she's being deadly serious is great but the second where she's relaxed and happy is better.  When do you get to bring her home and you are going to keep in touch with us, aren't you???

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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:37 pm

What a pretty little red...love the eyes. Luckily you only lost 100 pounds, could have been worse, most breeders here want $250-$500 deposit, so chalk that up to a learning experience. Can not wait to see your little one grow!! So yes please keep us informed on your little ones growth.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:18 am

dest0 wrote:
Thanks for all your responses and support with this as it was really helpful.

I've followed your advice and dismissed going ahead with this breeder as they seem dodgy and not trustworthy, he doesn't even answer my texts or calls..(Lost my £100 deposit but oh well).

I went on the Kennel Club website as advised above and found this gorgeous puppy from an assured breeder who know exactly what they're doing and they're breeding to improve the bloodline not to make money.

She's got wonderful temperament and tons of personality.

Pics below, thanks again!



http: http://imgur.com/a/dkHU6

Ahh she's so cute! Post more pics when you get her (if you don't already have her)
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:24 pm

Thanks for all the support, will definitely keep in touch and keep you guys updated.

We are getting her tomorrow! I literally cannot wait, my wife and I dream of her every day at night (Kinda weird, no? lol).

I will try to get my deposit back, but everything you guys have said is right, and we feel A LOT better with this breeder, because they actually care about the puppy, and THEY were the ones asking US questions to make sure that we're fit to have THEIR puppy.

So it makes you feel confident that you've got someone to fall back on, they even put on the contract if we can't keep her we have to return her to them (Not that we won't take care of her) but just shows what you guys mean about the breeders caring and it's not JUST about the money.

I will update this thread with pictures once she's home!
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PostSubject: Re: 4 weeks Cross-Eyed pup?   Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:49 pm

If I might make a suggestion? When you bring the little one home, start one of the "52 weeks of <my pup>" threads and we can let this thread die the death it deserves.. You've learned an we can leave this thread for someone else who needs the same help while you move on to enjoying the first year of your new pups life.

See, we weren't all the grinch we seemed to be .... Smile

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