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 Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!

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Female Join date : 2013-12-20

PostSubject: Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!   Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:47 pm

Recommendations for sturdy crate. Please. Pretty Please. Do not know what I'll do tonight pale
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Female Join date : 2016-02-10
Location : Renton, WA

PostSubject: Re: Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!   Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:26 pm

Impact dog crates! They are on the pricey side but I hear they are amazing and worth it if you use the crate frequently! Saving up to get my girl one:) this is the link:
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Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

PostSubject: Re: Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:30 pm

Yipes, I know that I'm tight with  dollar but they're not, in my book, "on the pricey side" they plain expensive!!

Okay, that said, I can see where someone who's showing dogs or running them needs something a lot better than what I'm using for two of  my three.  But I do have to say that when I looked down at the prices, I did pucker more than a bit!!

Amy, I'm going back to my comment from earlier - there reaches a point where one needs to take to "tough love" in doggie style,  

The meanest dog I've ever had to deal with was a GSD who'd lived in Syracuse,  She was teased by the kids as they were on their way to school and my cousin was told that he had to get rid of her,  I was 18 at the time and Kim scared the hell out of me,  No one could get near her except my cousin and he did it carefully.  It was spring and Kim was tied to a clothesline pole.  One of my tasks was to feed her and when I did it was to put her bowl down and push it into her "circle" and step back.  I had the feeling that if she'd gotten the chance, she'd have eaten me!

Over time she came to accept that I was going to be there and she'd wait for her food - or was it just her waiting for me to give her some attention.  It was a couple of months before I could reach down to pet her and even then I had to be careful - to say that she was jumpy was an understatement.  Neither my aunt nor my uncle would even come close to her - she still intimidated them (but then, I was the one feeding her).  Eventually we reached the point where I'd take her across the fields on her chain, she wanted to run but that wasn't going to happen, she was still *way* too aggressive when a stranger came around.

I took her walking beside the road one day when a car came past, she chased car and like tore my arm out of it's socket, (Now remember I was 18 at the time) she'd managed to tear my hand up pretty good when she reached the end of the chain, she did a back-flip and I preceded to pound her - I was hurt, I was mad and it was her fault (okay, I know better now) and then I realized that one vicious dog was laying there, she could have turned on me but she took all my anger and didn't do a thing.  She became my constant companion when I was outside, and I was outside a lot; eventually she got to run off lead because she'd come when i called and while she still wasn't fond of strangers she wasn't determined to chew them up at first sight.

Story's over - Kim had a real rough start in life, my cousin was working and busy and didn't have time for her; the kids in the city teased her unmercifully and then she got dumped on us.  My uncle wanted to put her down immediately but I and my cousin talked him out of that - but if anyone had gotten seriously bitten she'd have been shot without hesitation (yeh, I got nibbled on a time or two but I lived).

That's set the tone of a lot of my working with dogs.  When things happen to them, they don't understand - the know that things have changed and that's all.  They want to insure that they're safe and if that means being mean, well, they'll be mean.  They also want people and that's the part that leaving Kim tied up with only me for a companion worked in my favour.  I fed her and she knew that I wasn't going to mistreat her but at first she wasn't even sure of those - it took time.

Assuming that the dogs in good health, eventually they're going to want and then accept a persons companionship.  But sometimes it's better to just leave them alone and wait for them to indicate they want it.  

There, in a story and my comments is what I mean by "doggy tough love"

ETA: Take a look at this video, especially from around the 30 min mark. I very much like the comment that "it's not cruel to not allow a dog to misbehave"

I think we all agree that punishment is counterproductive when we're training. Praise / treat based training invariably works better - however, when we're dealing with a dog who's "out of control" there must be a way to enforce the control and get them to a point where praise based works. I think it safe to say that no one can train a dog who thinks that a chunk of your leg is the best treat around.

It was my realization (when I was pounding on Kim) that it was everything I had done up to that time that allowed me to abuse her without reaction from her. Separating yourself from a vicious dog is not punishment, it's ensuring your own safety so that you can work forward to beneficial reward based training.

Last edited by aljones on Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Female Join date : 2013-12-20

PostSubject: Re: Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!   Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:16 am

Well, at least, I think, I've solved tonights problem. We have a lot of random pieces of OSB left over from when the garage complex was built several years ago. I bent the wires out so Z'ev can't get poked, surrounded the crate with OSB, except for the side with the welds broken, that got a piece of 3/4 marine plywood next to the crate covered by the OSB and then took a 30 ft tether cable, clipped one end to one side of the crate and wrapped it around and around until I ran out of cable and clipped that end to the crate. Then, for good measure, I wedged a full 30 gal garbage can up against that. Then covered the whole mess with a blanket for the night.

Weird thing is, when I went back and hour later to make sure he was still in there (I had already put up the plywood, OSB, blanket and garbage can, just no cable - figured he'd probably knock it down. Nope. Sleeping like a baby.

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Female Join date : 2013-06-14
Location : Missouri

PostSubject: Re: Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!   Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:30 pm

The impact crates are essentially hauling crates for hunting dogs. They are usually made that way for if something happens and they fall out of the back of a truck. If you have a bird dog group in your area you might be able to get a hold of a similar crate for cheaper or even borrow one.

Are you wanting to beef up his crate because you are afraid he will escape or because you are afraid he will bite you? You might be better off building something that suits what you are going after.

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Female Join date : 2013-12-20

PostSubject: Re: Help!!! Z'ev is now able to get his head through the crate!   Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:48 pm

Well, my contraption worked!  No change over night.

Jenn - first and foremost I wanted to make sure he didn't hurt himself.  Second, he has proven to be the original Siberian nightmare as far as escaping, destruction.  If he breaks out of the crate, their are multiple extension cords going to battery tenders, radio for him.  There is the exposed belt on the top of the brush hog.  And...he has been eyeing the window with intent.  Since my first girl broke out of a vets "strongest" cage and broke through the glass door after waking up from spay,  I have no illusions about his study of the window.  He has the same look as Ami when I was trying to get out some burdocks holding him against the 3 ft barrior to the family room...you could see the calculations as he, wedged between me and the barrier, looked into the family room, figuring, distance, trajectory, thrust...and, zoom, pogo stick straight up and out about 5 ft.  And the family room has 3 steps going down about 3 ft!

At the moment, I'm thinking if he can't see out the sides, except for the maybe 5" at the top on sides and front, none on back, he is less likely to try to push through.  I'm also researching the use of bark collar in crate - I noticed when we used the bark collar on Archer, it not only stopped the barking but also calmed him down considerably.

I do have a line on a crate on craigslist...we'll see.  I know of no birding groups in the area.
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