Hey y'all, before I get to the issue.
Happy New Year and I hope everyone had a good one
First, here's some new pics of my boy...before this super long post begins.

New bridge at the park


Now for some close up shots











Now some floor action, I love to lay on the floor with him and chill until we both fall asleep sometimes (most times)




Okay, now for the sadness.
Mylo is fine, he's happy and doing everything as usual.
However, if y'all remember...back in July 12th he had his first seizure at a pet store.
(I didn't feel like adding to that thread)

Anyway, very recently, on December 28th
Mylo had his 2nd seizure.
Strangely, it lasted less time, and was less intense, he didn't pee himself either.

Here's the intro to the story of the morning of Dec 28th...

So, since it was almost the end of the year, me and my ex thought..hmmm maybe he should get a bath. He only gets a bath once a year, it's been that way since he was 2yrs old.
To try and prevent an "excitement at the pet store" situation... I thought hmm well lets try one of them mobile grooming people. Found the best rated one in my area and got scheduled for 8:30am on December 28th. I felt good about it because it was gonna be early in the morning, he's still gonna be a little sleepy so he will be calm and also he wont be stepping in to any place (building/store) that might cause excitement since that was part of the possible trigger last time.
(He hasn't been to any store since then. We usually take him to the store on his birthday, but this year we didn't do it.)


Full detailed story of the morning of Dec 28th:

Well, its 8:29am, Mylo was in bed with his momma, its time to walk out in front of the house to get in the big grooming van with the very nice grooming lady. He sniffs her while shes outside of the van and then he walks up the two steps to be in the van.

Mere seconds pass...I'm about to give him a treat for getting on the van.
He began to shake his head exactly as he did the first time.
I acted fast I knew what was happening, I gently nudged him to step down from the van to get on the concrete because I feared he would roll down and surely hit his head.
He did make it to the concrete floor and then fall to his side, his legs twitching and mouth getting foamy. I begin to cry as I call my ex to come out.
As he stopped moving, I grabbed his head as he still laid on the floor...I thought he was dying in front of my eyes. He looked at me then got up like nothing happened.
It was for sure less than a minute, the first one was a little over 1 minute.
His leg movement was not as intense and he didn't pee himself.

Sigh.

I did not want the bath to happen anymore so I apologized to the groomer, thankfully she understood and just charged me half of the fee basically travel charge.

He's back to normal, we get in the house and he keeps doing a particular whine that he does when he wants to go for a walk. I wanted him to relax for a bit, but he kept insisting. So we went on a walk and he was having a blast as he usually does.

The rest of the day went as it usually goes, he continued to be good.

End of the Dec 28th events.


----------------------------------
It's been 5 days since the incident, he's doing great, again like nothing happened.
I did call the vet after it happened, but they just straight up told me to come to the clinic to get him on meds. I was not satisfied with that answer.

I want to know more about this, I know this can't be healed, but if meds are the next step I want to know if something else is wrong with him. They did all the tests they could've done at the vet he's always been to since a puppy.

My ex brought up something that I never thought about before.
What if he has a brain tumor?
My goodness the possibility of that makes me so sad.

I went on a quest today, I went to 3 different vet clinics today to just ask about seizures and share my story. I of course wasn't able to speak with a doctor, but I had some brief conversations with the techs. I just wanted to talk about this situation with people that know something about this in real life. One of the clinics told me about a big specialty vet clinic where neurological tests are done. So I went there to see the place and ask questions. It's a huge super nice animal hospital that seriously looks like a human hospital with a ER section. They do all kinds of higher level stuff than at a normal/basic clinic.

Anyway, my final thoughts/questions are...

Seizure 1: July 12th, pet store visit
Seizure 2: December 28th, grooming van

This really makes us think its some kind of reaction he's having to something.
The topic of it being a smell/cleaning product came up in my previous thread about his first seizure.

He gets excited/happy for walks, park time, and car rides, no seizures there.

He's good at his usual vet and the place I take him for nail trims, no seizures there.

This seems to be a very specific isolated trigger.

I'm very scared to take him to a new vet because of it being a new place/area.

What do you think about this development?

Are seizure meds really the next step?

Should I go thru with extensive neurological testing?


I (we) love Mylo so much.
I'm crushed at the thought of him possibly leaving us sooner than anticipated because of this.


Thank you to anyone that took the time to read all of this.

It seems like a cleaning product trigger to me also. I would possibly reach out to the mobile groomer and see if she would be willing to divulge her list of products to clean, or anything she may have used in a previous appointment that may have not gone completely away before she came to groom mylo. If the pet store could do the same that would also be great and then see if they use anything the same or similar that might have a like ingredient that other places don't seem to use.

Hunting for a brain tumor will be expensive. It's not a bad idea, but it will be costly. I would probably rule that out though before committing to meds constantly though since the episode are very far apart right now. Just my personal opinion.

I have a dog that has transient seizures. We dont know why. Unfortunately i know a whole lot about human seizures because my husband has them. Specifically he has psuedo seizures and that took almost 10 years of work up. I don't know if dogs can get stress or excitement triggered seizures.
The pattern of something going on when the seizures happen and them not happening at home or happening when someone was coming over or something happening when something was getting ready to happen makes me wonder.

The meds for seizures are almost worse then the seizures. I know several people who use CBD drops successfully. Doggy neuro is expensive but if your constantly worried your dog will pick up on it and be stressed because your stressed. The real question is can you afford canine neuro. If you can i would do that BEFORE you start talking seizure meds. The meds will severely impact his life and dogs dont live as long on the seizure meds.

This is not medical advice just something that comes up in my circles. The vet legally can not recommend cbd but CSU has been doing alot of research in cbd in epileptic dogs and it seems very promising.

because it has happened twice during bath times i would not rush to meds.

have you tried giving him a bath at home in your tub where you can control the environment and cleaner used?

we use CBD oil on Jack after hiking for soreness and have had good results with it. it does calm him down as well

i am so sorry you are dealing with this, it is scary.

Finn gets head tremors and i just track them with the vet, all the test we did did not give us a reason why so we just monitor it.

Sierra also had seizures and we never knew why either, we kept honey on hand to feed to help bring her sugar levels up.

It's been a good while, thought it would be time for a progress report.

Thank you all that dropped by here and gave some input

My boy is doing great, being his usual self.
Walks with him have become much more special than ever since the 2nd incident.
We have decided to not look further in to this issue as it would be a very costly endeavor
and the sad reality is that no matter how much we go deeper in to the issue...
he's still not going to live longer than he should.

Honestly, hes been thru so much, he's a really strong boy.
Some of you might remember, he's a parvo survivor and now with all this that has happened recently...I'll be happy if he lets us love him until hes 8 years old.
We're just gonna carry on keeping safe with things hes always known.
We just want him to be happy. We love him so much, I give him extra kisses and hugs any time I'm allowed to see him.

@Twisterll
I would really like to ask both parties to tell me what they use to clean, but I just know it will be a lost cause. They wont tell me or tell me something else.

@jbealer
Naa, it has nothing to do with bath time.
That store where it happened the first time is one I've been taking to ever since he was 1yrs old.
It's called Krisers, a nice small sized store where the employees got to know us (still the same ones there and were witnesses to the incident) and they know him by name! I still go there to get some treats that are only found there. I'll forever miss taking him to his favorite store.

So previous to the first one that happened in July, weeks before that, we visited the store and his mouth got foamy the moment we stepped in to the store BUT nothing else happened beyond that. I didn't think much of it but I should have, its like that was a warning. Weeks later (July) his mouth foamed up like it did but escalated to what it did.

He gets a bath once a year usually around February, no real reason, its just how it started when he was 2 so we kept it annually like that lol. This year we just felt like getting it done in time before the new year. The baths at 2 and 3 yrs old were at the same place I took him to.

For his 4year old bath, we gave him a bath at home, it went good enough but this year we wanted him to get a real good bath for his 5yr bath so to try something different and rather smoother for Mylo to not take him anywhere new to step in to (in fear of some unknown cleaning product as we were suspecting), we went the mobile groomer route. However, as already stated, the moment he stepped in to the van it happened.
A very bizarre case.

We do plan to bathe him sometime in 2020 ourselves, at home.

His rabies shot is in February, while the last time we were at the vet (before the 2nd incident) he did good as usual, part of me is a little nervous about him stepping in to the vet office, before the 2nd incident I also took him to another vet where I take him for nail trims and he did good.
But maybe he's more sensitive now and it has developed deeper? maybe I'm just thinking too hard about this

Here's some new pics of my baby boy

I'm wondering if these are triggered by lights.

All I can offer is my opinion. My dog has seizures. It is epilepsy. He is just over two years old and on medication. Film the seizure so your vet can see it. It's also a good method for timing it. I know with my dog there is no trigger as such. They are awful to watch. What my vet told me was when he has a seizure or fit move anything dangerous out of his way. Don't talk to him or touch him it over stimulates the brain. Try to cover his eyes or shut curtains if it's a home so its dark. My dog had a fit couple of days ago for a minute and a half. He was a little dazed afterwards. It was explained to me as brain overload and it's like the brain shutting down and restarting back up. If you think you have found a trigger then avoid it. My dog has random fits and no trigger. Since starting tbe meds he has had 1 seizure in 4 months. I chose medication as the option was no medication and more seizures. Apparently it is common in huskies and malamutes they are genetic. Also make sure your dog has zinc in his diet. If you google regards lack of zinc and seizures you will get information. Hope the information helps. The meds my dog on is the same as what they give to people with epilepsy. People take medication for epilepsy. Discuss it with your vet.

I can't tell from your story if you're taking him to the vet to seek the consultation of the doctor(s) OR you're just asking questions to the techs about your dog's condition?

If it's the latter, then you may just be prolonging his issue(s) and it will get costly and you may be left with less options as time goes on. Not sure if this is a monetary issue that is holding you up, but it doesn't make sense that you're asking people what his condition may be. Everyone is going to have their own stories although the symptoms may be the same. Just like a human being, it's better to seek professional advice so you know what course of action you need to take.

If the approach is to give your dog meds, then maybe that's what you need to do.

Good luck!

Hey man,

I'm definitely not a vet, and even though I'm in medical school, I'm surely not a doctor either. Also, though it would make sense that these things translate - I won't pretend to know 100% that they do.

With that said, here is what I can offer:

In humans, there can be a few things that would cause seizures - Genetics, congenital defect, infections, trauma, stroke, tumor, metabolic, and more. None of these is fun to consider, even though often they are benign. In order to determine causes one first looks at demographics to separate the likelihood of these causes applying (for instance, kids don't usually have strokes so I wouldn't be looking at that first.... Also, if the first stroke happened when the person was 50 years, it is less likely that the issue was due to a congenital defect). After that you start looking at risk factors and changes leading up to and since the first seizure as well as on every occurrence of it. Lastly, you do labs to rule confirm/deny suspicions (if necessary)...

Why am I telling you this? Your pup could have a tumor, but it also could just have a neurological loop in his/her brain that is causing seizures. It could be nothing or it could be life threatening - and the only ones who have the expertise to distinguish the difference are your vets. Looking online might freak you out because of the (often rare) awful things that could be causing your pups problems. Given that the algorithm for figuring out the issue - I would highly recommend that you stay with one vet (unless you don't trust him). This way you won't have to delay figuring out the problem by having to start over and over with every new vet.

Now regarding drugs. Often when the cause is benign and surgery is unnecessarily invasive - drugs do a great job at helping minimize or address these. I'm assuming this is what your vet was going for.

I hope you find this helpful. I'm sorry you and your pup are going through this. I know it can be really scary - and I hope you and your vet figure it out soon. I'm cheering you guys on from Ohio.

Good Luck!

Thank you all for chiming in again this time around!
Mylo has been doing great, as usual.

Now, I think I need to clarify that the purpose of me making this thread is
merely to share stories about this subject.
Like many difficult situations, its always good to be able to talk about them
We've already made our decision of not putting him on meds.
**As long as they don't start happening randomly**
If this evolves in to unpredictability, well then we shall proceed with meds.


@amymeme
Interesting observation about the lights, hmmm..

@Lycan1
I did in fact film the first seizure and the vet watched when I took him in.
The dazed after effect is something that wasn't seen after both incidents that's why this bizarre.
Back up in action like nothing. I'll for sure look up the zinc info, that seems interesting. Thanks.

@arexniba
I wanted to speak with actual vets about this in all the clinics I went to, but I already knew that without him there with me that was gonna be a request that wouldn't be fulfilled. That was okay with me though because again, I just wanted to talk to someone about this stuff. All the techs did end up providing me with input. One told me what she has seen there and how some owners go about it, etc.
Honestly, I'm super terrified of Mylo stepping in to a new and unfamiliar vet clinic floor/scent/smell.
But yeah, were not going the meds route unless this gets random and unpredictable.
Sure, some might say it's not a good decision, but that's what we've decided to do.
He's due for an annual run of shots in February, so I'll be discussing this further.

@correarc1
Wow, thanks for your in depth info and perspective!

I realize its a different breed, but when I was a kid, we had a Boston Terrier that had epilepsy. Your description of the seizures was identical to what our dog's seizures were like. The dazed after effect is actually from the adrenalin rush they get from having the seizure. Our vet put our dog on meds but could never get the dosage correct. She lived with it probably about a year but she was also 13 years old.