YAY!!!! That is wonderful news

rnelsen wrote:

Sara and her mom and huskies came over today for a play date with Nelson (we've renamed him Drake), and it's amazing how different he's acted since they left. His spirits are much higher, he's been approaching me more than he ever has, he's jumped/laid on the couch, these are HUGE improvements. This has really made my day and I hope it just gets better from here! Right now he's sitting beside my chair waiting for me to give him a treat. ))

Yay!! That's great news!! Happy for you!

Good for you, Sara, for helping out!

Yeah for Drake and Yeah for Sara helping you all out!!! did you take pics at the meeting?

Aw, I'm so happy to hear this!

Yay! That's great news! Sara is awesome and very knowledgeable! Glad that the visit is helping Drake out so much!

Sooooooooo does that mean that you'll make the camping trip?!

That's awesome news! That was reallly nice of Sara and her mom!

Doh! Rachel, this should say, "ADOPTED!"

Petfinder needs anupdate!
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/21874966

Well, we have now had drake for 9 days and I thought I would give everyone a little progress report. In terms of him seeming more comfortable and less anxious, he has made a lot of improvements. He wanders around the apartment and loves laying out on our screened patio and looking out windows. Some days he will be in an extra-good mood and jump on the bed (not when we're on it of course) and occasionally the couch (again, only if it's empty and we're not looking). He does seem to be food motivated, and will come to us for treats and even beg when we're eating our dinner.

Other than that, he has yet to approach us. He is still extremely wary of touch and tends to bolt away from us if we approach him. The poor thing is starting to look scraggly, as he needs a good brushing and has clumps of fur halfway falling out...the attempted brushing didn't go well, he ran away from me twice. This is the hardest difficulty to overlook, as both my husband and I desperately want to pet him and scratch his belly and show him some love.

He is still very wary of the outdoors, we can't get him to walk far at all. He also still cowers when we leash him, and also when he comes back inside. I want to take a video of this behavior and upload it for suggestions, I'll try to do that later this week.

On the bright side, we have found a husky in our community who is close in age to Drake and they've met twice. His name is Apollo, and he came over yesterday with his owners for about 20 minutes. It makes me so happy to watch them play, Drake looks like a normal husky pup, running around, wrestling, jumping, and biting.

I guess that is all I have to report. Bowels seem to be normalized. I am giving him a small portion of pumpkin once a day, and have also started trying some natural remedies for fleas to see if I can avoid using chemical repellents. I put about 1/3 clove of ginger in his food today and yesterday added 1 tbsp of ACV. He ate the food, although I can tell he thought it tasted funny.

If anyone has any advice on how to proceed I would really appreciate it! I feel like I'm in a little over my head and don't know what I should do or what method I should use to try to train him, or if training is even possible at this point because he is still so wary of being approached.

I've been doing a lot of reading up on fearful/anxious dogs and it is sometimes scary and discouraging. I've read stories that say the dogs required very intensive training and are still not "normal". I try to tell myself that he is so young that he will definitely overcome this, but I don't know if I need to employ special methods for him to overcome his fears or if giving him time will solve everything.

So glad I have you guys for practical and moral support, thanks for helping to get me through this first crazy week!!

If you're not already doing it - you should work on applying NILIF (Nothing in life is free). It can help to build his confidence because he'll learn what to expect and how to get rewards.

I found this site http://fearfuldogs.com/ on my other forum. I just briefly skimmed over it but it might help.

Also if he's not improved or made some leaps and bounds with his fearfulness/timidness over the next couple months I'd look for a good behaviorist that does reactive dog classes/confidence building classes (and a home visit to see how he acts). Those were referenced to me for Bella.

I'd probably also lose the choke chain on him and give him a harness instead. The choker is probably making him more fearful - like if he goes to the end of the leash when he's out because he is scared and then suddenly he gets choked - wouldn't that make you more scared?

That's actually not a choke chain, it's just a chain collar because he would eat through the cloth ones. I absolutely do NOT want to use a choke chain.

I also found the Fearful Dogs website, and that's part of what has made me so nervous for Drake. She has had her dog for 5 or 6 years and he STILL isn't a normal happy dog...I'm hoping with Drake being so young AND being a husky and having a natural tendency towards being social that he won't end up being as difficult and unresponsive as her dog.

Oh wow, IS that a choke chain??? I thought you were talking about one of those pronged metal collars that would pinch them if they pulled but maybe you're right! I just looked it up online and his does look like that.... I had no idea, I just thought it was a chain collar...I do have a harness but I've been dreading putting it on him because I know he'll freak out...can you leave the harness on all the time? Because it would be really hard taking it on and off him every time we went outside.

Does he have any interest in toys or tugs? Tugging is a great confidence builder once you can shape them to know how to use it.

Have you tried sitting in the middle of the room with some treats? He's more likely to approach you when you're on the floor sitting down rather than standing up. If he approaches or even looks at you (if you have a clicker you can mark that) toss some treats his way. Try not to look directly at him or even face him (if he's still super nervous.) You can also start some positive name recognition with him by saying his name (while seated on the floor) and tossing treats towards him. Give him a few rounds and he'll begin to look toward you when he hears "Drake" when he begins to do that withhold the treats until he looks at you and then toss them. Slowly you can start tossing them closer and closer to you making him approach.

As for being nervous about being leashed up... Are you rushing it? Try sitting on the floor with the leash and lure him over with the treats. Go very slow and don't try to do it all in one take. Reach for the leash and give him a treat then put the leash back down. Move the leash and give him a treat... touch his collar/treat... touch the leash to the collar/treat... clip/unclip the leash & treat... Once he has the leash on walk away and leave him leashed for a few until he relaxes. Slowly ease him into things and try not to get frustrated (even mentally.)

No, you have a choke chain on him. That's probably part of the reason why he's freaking out. Prong collar is a prong/pinch collar - choke chain is what you have.

I'd say that leaving the harness on him probably won't work if he's eating through his regular collars unless you don't have the collar fitted properly that's why he's getting to it. But a harness is much easier for him to get to so he'd be chewing through it.

You should really apply NILIF (if you aren't already) and pick up a clicker and start clicker training. Dogs usually respond a lot better to clicker training. I'll try and find some references to the clicker training books or maybe someone on here can point you to them.

I'd say just show him the harness and if he comes up and sniffs it treat him and soft praises. Every time he goes up to it-treat and praise. He'll associate treats with the harness and then you can move to trying to get it on him and treat him for every good thing he does that allows you to put it on him.

If you're going to try and leave the harness on him he'll have to be under supervision 100% of the time so that he doesn't chew it.

Also the book "Control Unleashed" is FANTASTIC. I've used it so much for my dogs for all sorts of different situations. It's a great read and while the methods do take some time, they work. Currently we're using it with Mishkas hesitation/fear with some strangers as well as children.

I just bought a clicker...if someone can direct me to a good book or website explaining how to do the training??

http://www.alldogsgym.com/files/thinkingdog_excerpt.pdf

That's an excerpt I found on my other forum that is just a short read.

Here are some loose rules to follow:
1. The first step is called Charging the clicker. When you charge the clicker, the dog will look at the clicker initially. However, the dog will quickly learn to look for a treat, ignoring (not looking at) the clicker, once it is charged.
2. The next Step, Look at me, you say the dog's name, then click and treat when he looks. He may learn to look at the treat when you say his name, so you shape the look to be to your eyes, by moving the treat between your eyes, and clicking when appropriate.... This is a mix of luring and clicking... but that's Ok.
3. Your Sit, Down, Stand is a common Lure method, even though you used a clicker. As suggested before, you wait until she lies down, then you click and treat. At this point, don't click other behaviors (There are methods for capturing other desirable behaviors, but at this stage it can be confusing). When the dog is reliable with lying Down, you start using the the voice cue.

4. For walking, look up Silky Leash as well as Loose Leash, and follow those suggestions.
5. Distraction is one of the aspects of training. After you train a behavior, you need to retrain the behavior in the face of small distractions which you very slowly and incrementally increase.

Also, Click for Joy!, by Melissa Alexander - I didn't read the book but it has an award for best book on dog behavior and training from the Dog Writer's Association of America - I figured it might be a great thing to check out.

http://www.clickerlessons.com/
http://www.clickertraining.com/basics&source=feat_anon

Some other websites I found that looked pretty decent.

Please don't get discouraged - the visit with Sara sounds very promising! Do you think he's maybe picking up on some of your distress? Take a deep breath - and try what Kristina mentioned with the treats.

And maybe start feeding him by hand for a while - him being treat motivated will come in very handy! Owners = food = good!

I don't think he's picking up on any negative energy, I've stayed pretty upbeat with him and haven't been acting depressed or anything. He's actually been following me around about 30 minutes. When he sees me in the kitchen he's right there waiting for a treat. I was making tuna salad for myself, so he tried applies and canned tuna for the first time tonight, I think he liked it! But now he's following my every move waiting for more, this boy loves food!!

I think most of my discouragement is from feeling inadequate or not really knowing what to do. If I knew for sure that time would solve everything, then I could be patient. What worries me is feeling like I'm making it worse, or if I don't DO something then it will get worse, not better. But I guess it's a really good sign he feels comfortable following me around for food.

Also, he gets startled easily, like if I'm walking toward him and he doesn't know it or I take him by surprise. So I've started announcing when I'm walking by to forewarn him and even though he'll back away or move, it's not like I've completely spooked him so I think that's helping too. I need to start a journal or a blog or something so I can look back months from now and be amazed! LOL

I think you're doing great Rachel. Would it be possible to get some videos? For him to be following you around 9 days post adoption (even though it's because you have food) is really promising. He seems to be very food motivated and if he's willing to take food from you he is NOT that stressed. A stressed or nervous dog will not take food from someone. You've really got to harness that and abuse it. Take advantage of his drive for food because it overcomes his fear.

The fact that you're still sticking with him is a sign that you ARE adequate. He needs you, be there for him! Just from reading this it seems you're making positive strides with him. Shy/fearful/nervous dogs take time. Have you tried luring him around outside with the peanut butter? Petco is actually now selling the target stick which extends at least 2 feet and has a bob on the end that PB can be stuck on.

We haven't tried treats outside, like I said whenever it's leash time he won't even take treats inside so it seemed pointless to try outside. I tried to give him peanut butter yesterday, but he didn't seem too interested. I put a little bit on a spoon and held it out to him, he sniffed it a little while and then walked away. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow and see if I can get him to taste it.

rnelsen wrote:

I don't think he's picking up on any negative energy, I've stayed pretty upbeat with him and haven't been acting depressed or anything. He's actually been following me around about 30 minutes. When he sees me in the kitchen he's right there waiting for a treat. I was making tuna salad for myself, so he tried applies and canned tuna for the first time tonight, I think he liked it! But now he's following my every move waiting for more, this boy loves food!!

I think most of my discouragement is from feeling inadequate or not really knowing what to do. If I knew for sure that time would solve everything, then I could be patient. What worries me is feeling like I'm making it worse, or if I don't DO something then it will get worse, not better. But I guess it's a really good sign he feels comfortable following me around for food.

Also, he gets startled easily, like if I'm walking toward him and he doesn't know it or I take him by surprise. So I've started announcing when I'm walking by to forewarn him and even though he'll back away or move, it's not like I've completely spooked him so I think that's helping too. I need to start a journal or a blog or something so I can look back months from now and be amazed! LOL

I guess what I mean with picking up on the distress is that he's picking up on your anxiety or feeling inadequate. Dogs love confident leaders and feel comforted by rules and a strict hierarchy at home. The NILIF training mentioned above would give him this confidence - and you too!

I know it's tough right now and you feel discouraged but you're doing good. And don't worry about what you're not doing or what could be making it worse - you're providing a warm loving home, good food and affection. Everything else takes time and patience.

What Kristina mentioned about food is true. If he were stressed, he wouldn't eat. It's only been 9 days. Use the food to your advantage! One technique we learned in training class with Frosti was to take a large treat and have the dog eat away at it while it's in your hand (hold onto the treat while they nibble at it), while talking in a soothing voice and petting him/her. It turns it into a bonding experience rather than just doling out the treat and having the dog take it away to eat it.

If he doesn't like peanut butter, try canned tuna again or canned salmon. Kong also makes a liver flavor kong stuffing the dogs love. Or user super stinky salmon treats. The stinkier the treat, the better!

Then the leash is clearly a stressor... I would do a lot of positive association with the leash (like what I outlined above) or even have him wear the leash at all times (not just when he's going outside.) Break the thinking and the cycle. Have the leash mean something AMAZING. Is there anything that he really likes (food wise?) Try withholding it and only give it when the leash is out.

are you going to adopt another dog eventually so Drake can have someone to play with??

that's so great you're making progress with him!! he's such a beautiful boy!

Thanks everyone for the great advice! We've had a pretty good day day, have actually noticed really good improvements today with the potty trips. He hasn't been pulling at all and seems to not dart inside and cower on the ground like usual. He clearly isn't happy or comfortable, but doesn't seem nearly as freaked out.

On another note, we had to put his flea meds on him tonight and that DID freak him out...Both my husband and I had to corner him so he wouldn't run away. His breathing is really rapid and he's back to his corner by the door...he won't even come to me for cheese, his favorite.

rnelsen wrote:

On another note, we had to put his flea meds on him tonight and that DID freak him out...Both my husband and I had to corner him so he wouldn't run away. His breathing is really rapid and he's back to his corner by the door...he won't even come to me for cheese, his favorite.

What kind do you use? We've had that reaction from Koda AND Hailey, especially with Promeris and we won't use it anymore and I won't recommend it. Hailey still cowers from Frontline, but she gets over it quickly. With Frontline, I think it's mostly the smell. Promeris I think honestly made them ill.