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 Aggression/Biting

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goaliechick41
Teenager
Teenager
goaliechick41

Female Join date : 2012-12-28

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 10:35 am

daniela.a.caradonna wrote:
I feel he thinks it's ok to bite and I'm worried that this is not normal. I was under the impression that huskies were naturally good with children. Can anyone tell if that is so or is that myth?

Can i make it clear that this is not a mouthing problem, we have that too but he is easily distracted from that. He is really going for us. The pup in the original post sounds similar in personality so just wondered if you had had any luck.

All my husky experience has come in the form of an adult, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. I grew up in a breeding household though, so I have a fair amount of generic puppy experience.

If the mom or littermates didn't teach the pup proper bite inhibition, it is perfectly normal, and it will fall to you to teach. I bought a pup from a petstore once (hey, she had to go somewhere and she was better off with me than joe blow) and they are notorious for being biters. I fought this battle for a few months to get her to understand the "No biting" concept. My son was 3 at the time, so I had to deal with that factor too. I just consistently kept holding her muzzle gently shut and firmly stating " NO bite." (sidenote: this was a terrible idea to try on my adult husky and provoked him to bite again, so beware).
I would keep treats out and easily accessible on the counter, or even in your pocket. When you see him doing something undesirable, redirect his attention. Pass the treat under his nose to let him catch a whiff of it, and get him to come away from the dishwasher. If he knows sit, maybe get him to sit, and treat him. Or do the same with a toy. Honestly, it may not work for a while - it is a long term goal. You should take the time and build up the idea that listening to you brings fun or tasty things. Eventually you won't even have to treat for basic things like that.

As for the kids...They should never be unsupervised around the pup. Even for a minute. We all think our children are angels, but as soon as mommy or daddy isn't in the room, they like to test boundaries. I would have a serious sit-down talk with the kids. Let them know that the puppy doesn't know any better, and it is our job to help him learn. He's just like a human baby, but with sharper teeth! If it was me, I would give a firm "NO bite" when the child is nipped, and immediately redirect the pup to a toy. Or puppy time-outs.
Question- When the 7 year old tried to take off puppy's lead, did he have his face in the pup's face? I was bit by a min-pin at a dog show when I was 5 or so because I leaned over the dog and tried to kiss it and the dog panicked and bit me. Perhaps the pup felt threatened or scared. Or maybe the child caught some fur in the lead and it tugged and caused a pain reaction.

The biggest things I can stress are patience and consistency. You can't just train the pup part time, it has to be 100% and if you change punishments or skimp on rewards, or let things slide "just this time", it will send a lot of mixed signals to the pup, which can help promote stubborness and fear.
Good luck!
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DanielleCortez
Teenager
Teenager
DanielleCortez

Female Join date : 2012-11-25
Location : Ithaca, NY

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 11:07 am

Curious as to how the OP's progress is going. My pup is currently 10 weeks and is having the same biting/barking/growling issues and we're seeing the beginnings of progress yesterday.

Holding a treat in my hand and making a fist around it so that he can see/smell it, but not releasing. If be bites, pull back and say NO BITE. The SECOND he licks, say NICE! GOOD BOY, and reward with treat.

He started responding to this method last night, although with some errors of biting first, then licking, but hey, there was a change. Very Happy
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daniela.a.caradonna
Newborn
Newborn
daniela.a.caradonna

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Yorkshire

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 11:27 am

Hi, thanks for your reply. My son was kneeling down, pup was biting the lead and I assume didn't want him to take it away. I was about 4 feet away answering the phone so had my back to him so can't be sure if he got too close.

I don't leave the children with him unless he is in the crate and I have to nip out of the room. He has snapped at the kids many times when I was watching and they were simply trying to stroke him, and he snaps at me several times a day, mostly in the evening, I thought maybe he could be tired and irritable.

He was 8 weeks when we got him, although I believed he was 10, not sure if I was misled or I just got confused. I didn't want to take the pup till he was 10 weeks but never mind.

I will follow your advice about having treats on hand all the time. Thanks
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daniela.a.caradonna
Newborn
Newborn
daniela.a.caradonna

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Yorkshire

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 11:29 am

DanielleCortez wrote:
Curious as to how the OP's progress is going. My pup is currently 10 weeks and is having the same biting/barking/growling issues and we're seeing the beginnings of progress yesterday.

Holding a treat in my hand and making a fist around it so that he can see/smell it, but not releasing. If be bites, pull back and say NO BITE. The SECOND he licks, say NICE! GOOD BOY, and reward with treat.

He started responding to this method last night, although with some errors of biting first, then licking, but hey, there was a change. Very Happy

I wonder if it could be an age thing too, all the pups seem to be 10/11 weeks. Would be interesting to know.
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 12:35 pm

Quote :
I wonder if it could be an age thing too, all the pups seem to be 10/11 weeks. Would be interesting to know

That really is all it is. At 10 / 11 weeks they are much too young to be aggressive in the true meaning of the word. Huskies are just very mouthy dogs that need a lot of boundaries and guidance.

A puppy that young is just testing its boundaries 99% of the time and not showing any sign of aggression. Disrespect SURE, aggression no.


There are a bunch of treads here about curving or methods used to limit / stop biting. it just depends on the dog and the person training.

I personally used play as the reward and the catalyst for a bite / nip. I would go out of my way to play and often play rough. When I got a nip or a bite I would say very loud OUCH! and stop playing and just ignore.

After some time I would continue. If it happened again She went into time out.

Ignoring and excluding Tika from anything is punishment for her. We realized that pretty fast and just used that.

Just find out what their motivation is. Is it food, play, or something else. There is always something to use as a base for any training. Once you have that it's all about the time you put in. It won't go away over night and there is no miracle fix. Just time, training, and patience.

For best results your children should be helping you during the whole process. It should be fun and a game for everyone. It will help cement their role in your puppies life.

~Chris~
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daniela.a.caradonna
Newborn
Newborn
daniela.a.caradonna

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Yorkshire

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 1:20 pm

Tika wrote:

I personally used play as the reward and the catalyst for a bite / nip. I would go out of my way to play and often play rough. When I got a nip or a bite I would say very loud OUCH! and stop playing and just ignore.


Thats great advice Chris, thank you I didn't think of that.
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 2:00 pm

Anytime and no worries Smile

Just keep working at it and it can only get better. Vent your frustrations here or to someone else and start again after calming down on the bad days.

All you have to do is find a method that works for both of you and keep at it.

From time to time I still throw out an OUCH just for fun and to keep her on her toes while playing. She instantly stops playing, backs up, sits down, and stares at me.

~Chris~

_________________
Is this about the cake problem? What's the matter with you mathematicians, cake is never a problem. - Professor Lazlo
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uelrindru
Puppy
Puppy
uelrindru

Male Join date : 2012-12-05
Location : New York

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 2:29 pm

I found a great way to discourage biting with Bella. I rough house with her occasionally and I let her mouth me when and only when we are playing like that. If I feel she is getting too rough I grab her snout with my pointer and middle finger above her nose and my thumb in her mouth. I just hold her like this until she tries to back away and then I release her. She can't use any force against you to bite back and she absolutely hates it. Between that and pushing my hand to the back of her throat so she can't close her mouth that usually keeps it in check.
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xxGhostxx
Newborn
Newborn
xxGhostxx

Female Join date : 2012-12-15
Location : St. Louis, MO

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 2:31 pm

I'm posting an update, since there seem to be others experiencing the same issue. (I would have done so sooner, but I didn't realize the thread was still kicking.) My pup's mouthing has gotten substantially better. Here is what I did:

1. I hand fed him every meal he ate for almost two weeks. Some of it piece by piece, some of it in handfuls. I also slightly, and I do mean slightly, underfed him during meal time. This was so that I could reward him with his own kibble for following commands properly during training exercises. This taught him that ALL food, even the stuff he eats on his own is a reward for listening and behaving.

2. After meal times, I took at least 20-30 minutes, 2 times a day, to train him. He has learned down, sit, shake, drop it and come. I didn't teach them all at once. Once it was clear that he had learned one, I moved on to another while interweaving a previous exercise. The first command he learned was "Down." (I thought it was more important than "Sit.") And from there he learned "Sit." So, I'd say "Down," he'd perform and I'd give him a piece of kibble. Then I'd say "Sit" and he'd perform and I'd give him a piece of kibble. Puppy push-ups. Its clearly VERY mentally stimulating for him. He loves the attention and the food. And it was a good way to strengthen our bond. He knows I am the source of food and I am respected because I have taken the time to show him he can be rewarded multiple times throughout a day. I read in several places that its not necessary that a puppy learn more than "Sit" to use positive reinforcement. But, if I needed to hand feed him his kibble, why not teach him at the same time?

3. I carry dog food in my pocket at ALL times. This is so when we're in the car and he gets nervous about riding by himself, I can reward him for being good when I say "Sit". Asking my dog to perform when he's anxious about a new thing and then rewarding him, has taught him that new things aren't scary. Or when we're outside talking a walk and he's wanting to chew on goose poop that I don't want him to have. I can reward him every single time he drops something I don't like to do something I do like. And it works. This doesn't mean he has stopped all mischievous behaviors. It means, he knows that he will be rewarded if he stops in the middle of a bad behavior and does the behavior I am asking for. That's all I can ask for from a puppy!

4. Learning "Drop It" has been invaluable. I instigated tug-of-war play sessions. Some people say you shouldn't play tug, because it can teach a dog to be more aggressive. I took this as an opportunity to teach my dog that aggression during tug isn't acceptable (since its his favorite game). Basically, I'd wait until I could see his eyes were dilating (usually a sign of excitement/aggression) and then I'd say, "Drop it," and hold a piece of kibble out. Having learned my body language from other exercises like "Sit," he knows the hand motion means food. So, he drops the toy cause he'd rather have food. I repeated this A LOT. Heck, my partner and I are still doing this because he's a puppy and he wants to play and his enthusiasm sometimes exceeds his desire for food. But, more often than not, he drops items on his own and takes the food. Because we've done this, he now knows "Drop it" universally means, "No." I can hear him chomping on a table leg and can say, "Drop it," without looking at him, and he immediately stops and waits for a reward. And the distraction usually (not always) keeps him from going back to doing what he was doing.

5. Yelping during play was what encouraged my pup to be more aggressive. I thought a lot about the fact that yelping seemed to be provoking the bad behavior, but the food was provoking good behavior and came up with an exercise to perform during his meals that would teach him bite inhibition. I'd take one piece of kibble, hold it between my thumb and index finger and allow him to put his mouth around it. Every single time he bit down on my fingers I yelped like a crazy person, withdrew my hand and the food, and looked away. In other words, biting = no food or attention. My pup responded to this by laying down completely on his belly (because he has learned I like this position) and waiting for me to look at him again. If he jumped on me, I ignored him and looked at the ceiling. If he nosed my hand, I ignored him and looked at the ceiling. I decided when to feed him again, and that was after he settled down and realized I would only pay attention to him on my own terms. I gave him the food only when he took my hand in his mouth gently. Because I used yelping in coordination with him not getting food, he learned that yelping was a sign I was unhappy. Now, any time he snatches my hand during play time, I yelp (whether he's doing it hard or not, though he barely grazes my hand with his teeth anymore). He immediately stops. And when he stops, I reach in my pocket and give him kibble. As a result, he's all ready learning which toys he's allowed to mouth on (since I yelp for objects he's not allowed to have or say, "Drop it.")

***By the way, my hands and forearms were an absolute mess of scratches and bite marks while he learned these things. They're scratch and bite free now because he knows better***

6. I reward all good behavior. All of it. Even when I haven't necessarily asked for it. When he lays down on his own (not because he's sleepy, but because he's showing me he's a good boy), I plop food in his mouth. Now when he runs up to me when I come through a door, he almost immediately lies down (instead of jumping up) because he knows Mom likes it. Sometimes, he holds out his paw for "Shake" just cause. He enjoys making me happy. And he enjoys being treated.

7. If all else fails, and he doesn't listen (which as I said before, still happens because he's an enthusiastic puppy), I squirt him in the face with a water bottle. Smile It works. And boy oh boy does it make me feel better!

The only problem we're having now is that he doesn't seem to like being picked up. He growls. Eyes dilate. He gets anxious. But, we're using food to work on that too. I imagine if we keep up with it, he'll also grow out of this. He's getting better with it every day.

I hope this helps some of you. I found that I had to incorporate a lot of different strategies from a lot of different places to find what worked best. But, being able to take him to the vet's office and getting him to sit on the scale to be weighed after watching adult dogs refuse to sit on it... priceless.
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daniela.a.caradonna
Newborn
Newborn
daniela.a.caradonna

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Yorkshire

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 3:38 pm

Thanks Tasha, that is really reassuring! I think points 1 and 2 you make will work with my Nanuq as he loves his food. Got a huge amount of chicken in the oven as we speak. Just glad to see you have made progress as your pup sounded similar to mine.
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DanielleCortez
Teenager
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DanielleCortez

Female Join date : 2012-11-25
Location : Ithaca, NY

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 3:48 pm

Thank you for responding! I have already copy/pasted your response and emailed to my husband so we can both be on the same page with Kingsley. I hope he grows out of his biting/barking/growling phase soon otherwise I'm gonna have to ..... well, nothing, just try harder, haha.
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xxGhostxx
Newborn
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xxGhostxx

Female Join date : 2012-12-15
Location : St. Louis, MO

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 4:12 pm

I'm glad! Keep with it ladies! I was nearly pulling my hair out at several points, so I feel your pain. I had almost no me time for weeks on end and it was exhausting. (Sitting down to watch a 45 minute show on television was nearly impossible, because he'd be in the floor trash can or chewing on the floor etc; etc;) Definitely like raising a child. Once he and I learned how to communicate, it made all the difference in the world. Smile I've also taken to putting him in his crate once a day for an hour. It gives me a chance to do something that isn't all about him. I find I'm less stressed and more capable of giving him the guidance he deserves when I get a short break from him. And I think he does too. Smile
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DanielleCortez
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DanielleCortez

Female Join date : 2012-11-25
Location : Ithaca, NY

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 4:15 pm

That's great. Kingsley get's all 3 meals in the crate, and after a meal, he gets an hour nap in his crate as well. Regardless if we're home or not. He's been defiant with my husband more so than me, so my husband will hand feed at least one meal through his crate as well.

We're lucky because he still sleeps a lot. And if we need some quiet time to watch a show or something, but we don't want to put him in his crate because he'd already spent over an hour in their, we'll give him his medium sized puppy kong chew toy and that occupies him for a good hour. Smile
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CatDen
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Teenager
CatDen

Female Join date : 2013-01-19
Location : Atlanta, GA

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PostSubject: Re: Aggression/Biting   aggression - Aggression/Biting - Page 2 EmptyTue Feb 26, 2013 7:17 pm

We're currently going through the same aggression issue. We've been hand feeding him for close to 2 weeks now. Thought we were having progress, but today let us know that we have to start all over. He's also cut the growling and gone straight to biting with food and treats.. He's also started getting aggressive when he pees in the house. He'll pee and hide. When we go to get him to take him out, he'll growl at us. I agree, it's definitely not the "mouthing/biting" issue. We've contacted a few trainers, but we've only heard back from a few. One said, "He's a little young to have food aggression". Haha, then he told us to contact some lady to set up a time for him to come and check out the situation. Called today and he doesn't have openings until the end of April. What good would that do, right? Others say they won't work with puppies under 4 months...some 6. We're at the end of our rope. Our hands have scratches and bite marks all over them and we're just so exhausted. My only advice would be to stick with it and know you're not alone. You have people here that are willing to give you advice and just be there while you go through this.
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