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 How does breeding work??

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Trailtoad1
Teenager
Teenager
Trailtoad1

Male Join date : 2013-02-26
Location : Phoenix Arizona

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 1:12 pm

Do you ever breed a certain breed out of a dog. (not sure if I a putting that right) LOL Nanooks grandpa was malamute and grandma husky...so that would make his dad 1/2 malamute 1/2 husky...had pups with a full husky female. Does that make Nanook 1/4 malamute and 3/4 husky?? Does it work like that?
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Wy Renegade
Puppy
Puppy
Wy Renegade

Join date : 2013-03-04
Location : Wyoming

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 1:18 pm

That is basically right LOL. And to answer your question, no once breeds have been crossed, you can never breed that back out. In other words, no puppy produced from the line you indicated will every be 100% Siberian husky. Its a great topic for philosophical discussion, and gets into some interesting things in regards to the origin of the Siberian husky as a breed.
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Crispin
Newborn
Newborn
Crispin

Male Join date : 2013-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 1:50 pm

We'll say malamute genes are red marbles, husky genes are black marbles, and a dog always has 50 marbles. At the time of reproduction each puppy is going to randomly pick 25 of dad's marbles and 25 of mom's marbles. Note: the number of marbles matters if we actually want to figure out probabilities of having certain traits, but this is just a general example.

Grandma: 50 red marbles (pure Mal)
Grandpa: 50 black marbles (pure Husky)
Dad: 25 red marbles, 25 black marbles (F1 Husky-Mal Crossbreed)

Mom: 50 black marbles. (pure Husky)

So, here's where it gets messy... all we can say about Nanook is that he has 25 or fewer red marbles (well, we can also say he has at least 25 black marbles). The grab from Dad could be 25 black marbles, 25 red marbles, or some combination (say a 17, 8 split). The term for this is hybrid backcross, specifically Nanook is an F1b hybrid husky-malamute crossbreed.

Now, really messy is what happens if we breed two F1s to get an F2 hybrid crossbreed. Each parent has 25 of each color marbles so the pups will get somewhere between 0 and 50 of each color. From a lineage standpoint a puppy will never be a "purebred" out of this match, but it is possible (some non-zero probability) that the resulting F2 hybrid has the traits entirely of one of the grandparent breeds.

Someone with a genetics or biology background can probably give you a better explanation. The short answer is that no, it's not that he's 25% malamute and 75% husky (though he could be, probability is a hoot!)
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Trailtoad1
Teenager
Teenager
Trailtoad1

Male Join date : 2013-02-26
Location : Phoenix Arizona

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 2:15 pm

LOL...my random PJ/coffee thought just got complicated LOL
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kclee
Teenager
Teenager
kclee

Male Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : West Virginia

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 2:40 pm

The title of this thread seriously cracks me up!! lol!
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ramoscl
Teenager
Teenager
ramoscl

Female Join date : 2012-09-06
Location : San Diego, CA

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 4:08 pm

How does breeding work?

Well when a mommy dog and a daddy dog love each other very much.......


roflmao
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Wy Renegade
Puppy
Puppy
Wy Renegade

Join date : 2013-03-04
Location : Wyoming

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 10:30 pm

Crispin wrote:
We'll say malamute genes are red marbles, husky genes are black marbles, and a dog always has 50 marbles. At the time of reproduction each puppy is going to randomly pick 25 of dad's marbles and 25 of mom's marbles. Note: the number of marbles matters if we actually want to figure out probabilities of having certain traits, but this is just a general example.

Grandma: 50 red marbles (pure Mal)
Grandpa: 50 black marbles (pure Husky)
Dad: 25 red marbles, 25 black marbles (F1 Husky-Mal Crossbreed)

Mom: 50 black marbles. (pure Husky)

So, here's where it gets messy... all we can say about Nanook is that he has 25 or fewer red marbles (well, we can also say he has at least 25 black marbles). The grab from Dad could be 25 black marbles, 25 red marbles, or some combination (say a 17, 8 split). The term for this is hybrid backcross, specifically Nanook is an F1b hybrid husky-malamute crossbreed.

Now, really messy is what happens if we breed two F1s to get an F2 hybrid crossbreed. Each parent has 25 of each color marbles so the pups will get somewhere between 0 and 50 of each color. From a lineage standpoint a puppy will never be a "purebred" out of this match, but it is possible (some non-zero probability) that the resulting F2 hybrid has the traits entirely of one of the grandparent breeds.

Someone with a genetics or biology background can probably give you a better explanation. The short answer is that no, it's not that he's 25% malamute and 75% husky (though he could be, probability is a hoot!)

That is a pretty good analogy, and it shows the general idea. However, DNA isn't quite that simple. To continue with the analogy, you would have to remember that every one of those red marbles has the ability to split in to a million little pieces and mix in with all the million little pieces from the black marbles and the probability of every getting rid of the fragments of red marbles is so miniscule that the red DNA will never be completely gone. Descendents of this line will always have some Malamute DNA in their DNA.
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Balonsmom
Senior
Senior
Balonsmom

Female Join date : 2012-05-02
Location : MD

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 10:34 pm

ramoscl wrote:
How does breeding work?

Well when a mommy dog and a daddy dog love each other very much.......


roflmao

OMG so funny!
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Trailtoad1
Teenager
Teenager
Trailtoad1

Male Join date : 2013-02-26
Location : Phoenix Arizona

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptyFri Apr 19, 2013 11:14 pm

Embarassed
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Hughie
Adult
Adult
Hughie

Join date : 2013-04-17
Location : South East Wisconsin!

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptySat Apr 20, 2013 3:04 pm

Not sure how to start this, with goats they can be purebred if lineage can be traced back to the big bang (I guess), next would be an American this is also considered breed able, believed to be a pure or almost pure breed that cannot be traced all the way back. Last is a grade, this has all the traits of a certain breed but no history for proof. Now, if breed to pure sires the grades will work there way up to being Americans as the progeny expands(wish I really understand all of that). They are never purebred but considered to be as close as possible without actually being. Do dogs get "updated" like this or does it go against what is being strived for. Again I hope this isn't to confusing, I know what I'm asking, just not sure how to put it in writing.
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Trailtoad1
Teenager
Teenager
Trailtoad1

Male Join date : 2013-02-26
Location : Phoenix Arizona

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptySat Apr 20, 2013 10:51 pm

So pretty much I could breed Nanook with a full husky female and their pup with a full husky and their, theirs and theirs....but would never get to just husky. Not that I am going to, I was just curious if after a time the malamute would no longer be a gene in the blood line.
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arooroomom
Husky Collector
arooroomom

Female Join date : 2009-12-13
Location : South Fl

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptySun Apr 21, 2013 12:05 am

Trailtoad1 wrote:
So pretty much I could breed Nanook with a full husky female and their pup with a full husky and their, theirs and theirs....but would never get to just husky. Not that I am going to, I was just curious if after a time the malamute would no longer be a gene in the blood line.

I think "technically" you can apply for paperwork after 3 generations of Sibe x Sibe breeding in order to register THOSE puppies... I remember reading that when the merle Husky puppy issue came up... Sara said it I believe.

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HuskyMom09
Senior
Senior
HuskyMom09

Female Join date : 2012-11-01
Location : Spokane WA

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PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptySun Apr 21, 2013 1:32 am

arooroomom wrote:
Trailtoad1 wrote:
So pretty much I could breed Nanook with a full husky female and their pup with a full husky and their, theirs and theirs....but would never get to just husky. Not that I am going to, I was just curious if after a time the malamute would no longer be a gene in the blood line.

I think "technically" you can apply for paperwork after 3 generations of Sibe x Sibe breeding in order to register THOSE puppies... I remember reading that when the merle Husky puppy issue came up... Sara said it I believe.

This is true, as you stated it came to be known with the Merle cross mutts getting registered.
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Wy Renegade
Puppy
Puppy
Wy Renegade

Join date : 2013-03-04
Location : Wyoming

How does breeding work?? Empty
PostSubject: Re: How does breeding work??   How does breeding work?? EmptySun Apr 21, 2013 2:47 pm

If you look back, way back in the bloodlines of the Siberian husky to where Leonard Seppala was breeding his original stock, one of the females he used in breeding was half malamute, so I would imagine that technically it could be argued that all purebred Siberians have some malamute genes already. That is interesting that after so many generations they can apply for registry, I didn't know that.. If you were interested in having/maintaining excellent bloodlines then I would imagine you need to go back much further than the standard three generations that you get with AKC registry.
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