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 To Neuter or not to Neuter?

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histi
Teenager
Teenager
histi

Female Join date : 2013-12-10
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi guys...

after some peoples personal experiences with neutering their dogs...

I have NO intention on breeding my dog...

Have you found that male dogs fixed around 6 months do not grow to their full potential? I want digger to be as big and beautiful as possible. I know putting it off longer can cause sex hormone related issues such as leg cocking etc... but I don't mind that too much. humping humans etc does concern me a bit however.

I have a fully fenced property but fence varies from 4ft to 5ft high... Keyto has never attempted to jump or dig but am picking I am just lucky and she would rather hang with me. We are going to extend the fence with oriental trellis so height will be between 5 1/2 ft to 6 1/2 ft high... Just wondering if you have had experience with intact males going to extreme lengths to jump these heights in search of a bitch.

Also do male huskies get that funny smell most intact male dogs get or do they not get this because they are pretty smell free anyway?

Anything else I should be concerned about if I do leave him intact?

If the answers to my questions are posted elsewhere please point me in the right direction..

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VintageJeans
Adult
Adult
VintageJeans

Female Join date : 2012-07-07
Location : Houston, TX

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 8:43 pm

They will still grow to their full potential if neutered.  It is a myth saying that they don't.  

The humping of humans will stop once he is neutered, however.

Definitely extend your fence.  Unfixed males will do whatever it takes to get to a bitch.  Digging, breaking fence boards, etc.  Even neutered males still have the potential of escaping but it won't be because of a bitch.  Just boredom.

Not sure what smell you're talking about...
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Rocio_Caballero
Senior
Senior
Rocio_Caballero

Male Join date : 2012-06-19
Location : New Mexcio | Germany

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 9:09 pm

I neutered Lycus at a little before 6 months and he DEFINITELY grew all the way (78 lbs.) As Jackie stated, he will do just about anything to escape to get to a bitch.

Personally, I'm a pro-neuter unless your a reputable breeder, but everyone has different views and opinions on the topic.
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wpskier222
Senior
Senior
wpskier222

Female Join date : 2013-02-11
Location : NYC

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 9:12 pm

Neutering does not stunt growth, actually it does the opposite. Many males will go larger if neutered.
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GeorginaMay
Teenager
Teenager
GeorginaMay

Female Join date : 2013-04-08
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 10:04 pm

I am personally all for neutering. I know the local animal control person here in my town and have heard many many stories of dogs jumping fences (even ones too high for them and they seriously hurt themselves in the process!) chewing through chainlink gates, digging under fences etc and unfortunately the vast majority of dogs that are hit and killed or maimed on roads are unneutered males who have done the bolt, it's heartbreaking.

The only instance I have come across of neutering affecting growth is a dog who was neutered at 8 weeks old. It wasn't the owners that did it, he was adopted from the spca and for some unknown reason they did it that early. He isn't stunted though he is actually the opposite, incredible gangly looking like a perpetual teenager even though he is now 6.

Orion started humping things at about 5 months old, it was awful but luckily he stopped as soon as he was neutered. He still cocks his leg to pee though.

Oh and just FYI trellis was not strong enough as a fence topper for Orion. Like many dogs he likes chewing things made of wood like sticks etc. Our driveway gate was slightly lower than out six foot fencing so we thought the same as you and popped trellis on the top to extend it before he realized he could get out. Bad mistake! He took great delight in destroying the trellis and got out anyway (Luckily he just decided to snooze on the front porch and not actually go anywhere) and to top it all off all the little staple things that hold the trellis together cut up his mouth pretty bad.
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histi
Teenager
Teenager
histi

Female Join date : 2013-12-10
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 11:41 pm

@GeorginaMay wrote:
I am personally all for neutering. I know the local animal control person here in my town and have heard many many stories of dogs jumping fences (even ones too high for them and they seriously hurt themselves in the process!) chewing through chainlink gates, digging under fences etc and unfortunately the vast majority of dogs that are hit and killed or maimed on roads are unneutered males who have done the bolt, it's heartbreaking.

The only instance I have come across of neutering affecting growth is a dog who was neutered at 8 weeks old. It wasn't the owners that did it, he was adopted from the spca and for some unknown reason they did it that early. He isn't stunted though he is actually the opposite, incredible gangly looking like a perpetual teenager even though he is now 6.

Orion started humping things at about 5 months old, it was awful but luckily he stopped as soon as he was neutered. He still cocks his leg to pee though.

Oh and just FYI trellis was not strong enough as a fence topper for Orion. Like many dogs he likes chewing things made of wood like sticks etc. Our driveway gate was slightly lower than out six foot fencing so we thought the same as you and popped trellis on the top to extend it before he realized he could get out. Bad mistake! He took great delight in destroying the trellis and got out anyway (Luckily he just decided to snooze on the front porch and not actually go anywhere) and to top it all off all the little staple things that hold the trellis together cut up his mouth pretty bad.
Thanks! yeah the stuff you buy in the store is flimsy as hell, but fortunately my partner is a landscaper and the company he works for actually specializes in making there own, it's slats are actually near on 1"x 1" and are slid into place. thanks for the heads up on the potential for destruction though, will have to discourage any chewing. My dogs are never left un-attended outside so shouldn't be a problem (i.e me not being at home) If they are they are locked inside where it is cooler. I hope digger doesn't start humping at all! can be awkward to explain to the kids! Pretty sure it is best to get him fixed at 6 months then instead of leaving him with his Jewels LOL
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histi
Teenager
Teenager
histi

Female Join date : 2013-12-10
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptyFri Dec 13, 2013 11:42 pm

Oh and what do you feed Orion i you don't mind me asking?
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dahowlers
Adult
Adult
dahowlers

Female Join date : 2012-01-30
Location : Wisconsin

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PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 12:32 am

Early neutering causes elongation of the long bones in the legs, which can(not WILL, as it's a correlation not a for sure thing) put strain on the joints in the legs, and the dog retains a narrower figure, since testosterone is what cases a more "manly" figure. It's not very noticeable though, and unless the dog is going to be doing some high impact sports, the angulation in the legs won't be negatively impacted.

Humping also doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with whether or not a dog is neutered. Sometimes it's just excitement and that's how some dogs expel excitement. Porscha does this and so does Snoopy. My friend adopted a neutered seven-eight year old female husky and she was so excited the first time she met me (I riled her up, it was totally my fault, I'm a bad influence sometimes haha) that she tried to hump my leg. It was purely excitement and she had no personal space boundaries with me because we'd just met. I just immediately stopped being exciting and calmly walked into her to knock her off balance and she hasn't done it since. She's my buddy now <3

It's something I've researched a bit and I still neuter my pets, I have no reason not too, and it's less for me to worry about. Digger and Keyto are both so cute, by the way Very Happy
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histi
Teenager
Teenager
histi

Female Join date : 2013-12-10
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:04 am

So would 6 months be considered early? should I maybe waitt til 9 months?

And thanks, wait til I post more photos in the 52 weeks thread (havent started yet) Just trying to wrap up my study so I can do some light hearted stuff like that Smile

They are oh so more beautiful than that picture can portray (although I am biased of course)
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Rocio_Caballero
Senior
Senior
Rocio_Caballero

Male Join date : 2012-06-19
Location : New Mexcio | Germany

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:14 am

@dahowlers wrote:
Early neutering causes elongation of the long bones


That might actually explain a lot about Lycus' long ass legs lol.
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Playing with the Big Dogs
Adult
Adult
Playing with the Big Dogs

Female Join date : 2013-12-04
Location : Idaho

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:17 am

I found some interesting information about Spaying and Neutering. There really are pros and cons that we don't take into account. I agree that most of the population is not ready for the responsibility of an unaltered dog. Also I think we can't discount the behavior benefits of altering animals more so in males than in females. I also don't think I could handle the mess that comes with unaltered females. But I think it is good information to know so you can make a decision on what's best for you and your pets.

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http://playingwiththebigdogs.blogspot.com/
Hollyfrost
Teenager
Teenager


Male Join date : 2013-10-24
Location : Iceland

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:26 am

I would never neuter a dog unless I had medical reasons to do so.
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Playing with the Big Dogs
Adult
Adult
Playing with the Big Dogs

Female Join date : 2013-12-04
Location : Idaho

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:36 am

I don't think my breeder contract will give me much of a choice and I get it from the breeders stand point. They don't want there dogs to add to the over population and it's hard to trust that even well meaning owners could handle that kind of responsibility.
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Hollyfrost
Teenager
Teenager


Male Join date : 2013-10-24
Location : Iceland

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:41 am

Well there's a pretty big cultural difference between our countries concerning dogs Smile So I guess I'm not much help but I won't change my own opinion about it.
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Playing with the Big Dogs
Adult
Adult
Playing with the Big Dogs

Female Join date : 2013-12-04
Location : Idaho

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:46 am

I heard the Europe is more open to unaltered dogs is that correct? And if so would you have any ideas why? The farthest I have traveled is Alaska to Florida and down to southern California but I have not yet gotten the opportunity or privilege to go outside my country (other than flying over Canada) or across the ocean. I would love to hear how different countries treat dog ownership.
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Hollyfrost
Teenager
Teenager


Male Join date : 2013-10-24
Location : Iceland

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 1:56 am

Well it even used to be illegal in Norway unless you had medical reasons for doing it. I think it's mainly because the general view on dogs is different from the one in the states (I am not judging any individuals now). I shouldn't speak of all of Europe since here's pretty great differences between the countries but I can speak for the nordic ones :)A dog here isn't a "right", it's a privilege. People don't buy a dog unless they can stay home and care for it until it's several months old, people most often save up a pretty big sum to be able to pay for unexpected costs. We don't crate dogs either btw, it's even illegal in Sweden (not sure about the other countries here but I think it is there too) unless it's for special occasions such as shows or hunting.

We don't have the problems of puppy mills or BYBs here either, there are BYBs but they usually sell mixed breeds. Also, when we buy dogs from FCI-breeders they are ALL being sold as pets, there is no price difference between the puppies of the litters unless there is some defect of a puppy (like tail for example) and the breeder chooses to charge less him/herself.
Of course you can ask the breeder which ones they think should be the best ones for showing for example if that's what you want to do with the dog.

There are actually quite a lot of possible negative effects from neutering dogs that I suppose aren't being spoken of over there.

Tell me if something wasn't clear enough, it's very early in the morning here and I'm still half asleep Very Happy
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Rocio_Caballero
Senior
Senior
Rocio_Caballero

Male Join date : 2012-06-19
Location : New Mexcio | Germany

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 2:02 am

@Hollyfrost wrote:
Well it even used to be illegal in Norway unless you had medical reasons for doing it. I think it's mainly because the general view on dogs is different from the one in the states (I am not judging any individuals now). I shouldn't speak of all of Europe since here's pretty great differences between the countries but I can speak for the nordic ones :)A dog here isn't a "right", it's a privilege. People don't buy a dog unless they can stay home and care for it until it's several months old, people most often save up a pretty big sum to be able to pay for unexpected costs. We don't crate dogs either btw, it's even illegal in Sweden (not sure about the other countries here but I think it is there too) unless it's for special occasions such as shows or hunting.

We don't have the problems of puppy mills or BYBs here either, there are BYBs but they usually sell mixed breeds. Also, when we buy dogs from FCI-breeders they are ALL being sold as pets, there is no price difference between the puppies of the litters unless there is some defect of a puppy (like tail for example) and the breeder chooses to charge less him/herself.
Of course you can ask the breeder which ones they think should be the best ones for showing for example if that's what you want to do with the dog.

There are actually quite a lot of possible negative effects from neutering dogs that I suppose aren't being spoken of over there.

Tell me if something wasn't clear enough, it's very early in the morning here and I'm still half asleep Very Happy

This is really interesting. I did notice while I was in Europe, that most dogs I saw were unaltered. If you don't mind explaining, what are some of the negative effects that aren't covered over here?
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Hollyfrost
Teenager
Teenager


Male Join date : 2013-10-24
Location : Iceland

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 2:16 am

I forgot to add that people are expected to train their male dogs well enough not to run around after females in heat too Razz Wink


Here are a few studies on the subject:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0055937

http://www.vizslacanada.ca/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf

http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498


But in short: Male dogs can become very insecure since they don't smell of "male" anylonger, fur quality can get pretty bad, a lot higher chance for bone cancer in males that are neutered early in life, incontinence, weight problems and they can grow in a funny way if neutered early in life and so forth.. :)I'm not sure what problems "you" are aware of there.
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Playing with the Big Dogs
Adult
Adult
Playing with the Big Dogs

Female Join date : 2013-12-04
Location : Idaho

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 2:23 am

That is really cool. Now I have heard that the UK banns pit bulls. It is kind of confusing to me that on one hand they can be so pro active in animal rights and on the other hand ban a whole breed. I don't know what the laws like that are in Finland or if you would have an insight into the UK policy.

Also I mostly use crating as a potty training aid do you use something else or just monitor them very closely?

That is really fantastic I kind of wish we had some of those policies here. In Idaho it's only a small fine for animal cruelty until the third offense.
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Hollyfrost
Teenager
Teenager


Male Join date : 2013-10-24
Location : Iceland

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 2:36 am

We don't have those rules here in Finland, neither in Sweden where I am from but they recently banned a lot of breeds in Denmark. It is pretty sad and not the right way to go but there has been far too many incidents of people getting hurt from these kind of dogs in the hands of wrong people.

The sad reality is that these breeds often have a mentality to bite, more or less. I wish there were more responsible breeders concerning these breeds, working together to breed this out of the breeds but it seems very hard. I'm not sure how many times I've seen people say (with "fighting" dogs) that they couldn't ever have imagined their dog to attack another dog.. I suppose this is a huge part of the problem too, they don't know what they have in the end of the leash. Would have helped a lot if those people read the signals of their dogs.

I'm not judging individual dogs now, and a LOT of the problems adhere to the owners but if dogs weren't bred to perform different tasks we wouldn't have like 400 different dog breeds in the first place.

About housebreaking, here we take out the dog as soon as it wakes up, after it has eaten and after it has been playing and reward it when it does it outside. No punishment if it does it inside.
Most often a puppy will give you signals when it needs to go out, it's not always so easy to read in the beginning but it's easy to learn :DMy puppy for example sniffs around in corners or walks along the walls. Sometimes he makes some whining sounds or sits at the door Smile


Last edited by Hollyfrost on Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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histi
Teenager
Teenager
histi

Female Join date : 2013-12-10
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 2:55 am

Wow that is amazing info... now i don't know what way to go...
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histi
Teenager
Teenager
histi

Female Join date : 2013-12-10
Location : New Zealand

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 3:06 am

Also, as we are very much encouraged to neuter/spay our dogs here (NZ), would you mind going into more detail about how you train your dogs not to pay much attention to bitches in heat? As of course this information is in short supply Sad
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Hollyfrost
Teenager
Teenager


Male Join date : 2013-10-24
Location : Iceland

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 3:18 am

Well I havn't had any hard on experiences yet but I'd guess it is all about building up a lot of trust between you and your dog, so he will listen to you and always keep the under sight or secured in a fenced area. I'm not sure about there but quite often people here will tell friends and neighbours their female is in heat. I guess this last helps the most tbh.

I'm sorry for the lack of info but I'm pretty tired :Pit's not my native language either.


Last edited by Hollyfrost on Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Playing with the Big Dogs
Adult
Adult
Playing with the Big Dogs

Female Join date : 2013-12-04
Location : Idaho

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 3:35 am

I want to complement you on how well you convey yourself. For not being a native English speaker you are fantastic on how you express yourself using English. I am really enjoying getting such a different perspective. I really wish some opinions would change here but I think we are working towards a better future for our dogs. All I can do right now is keep getting more information for my dogs and surrounding myself with dog people to help get me more information and get to interact with like minded people.

I agree with you that I would rather not alter my dogs if possible but I know a lot of well meaning people who are not at the point in dog ownership to be responsible for one.

I don't think I will have much of a choice but I was able to push back the neuter of my pup till 18 months. So at least he will get all his growing done with his proper level of hormones.

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cinnamonbits
Adult
Adult
cinnamonbits

Female Join date : 2012-11-03
Location : San Antonio, TX

To Neuter or not to Neuter? Empty
PostSubject: Re: To Neuter or not to Neuter?   To Neuter or not to Neuter? EmptySat Dec 14, 2013 3:56 am

The problem we have here is that people aren't as responsible to be honest. A lot of people get a puppy because its cute then don't even think about all the things they have to deal with and we end up with dogs running the streets and breeding with each other. Its mainly because of the irresponsible breeding that our vets recommend neutering. Females are a whole other story lol.
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