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 Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...

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AtticusKronosVulcan
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PostSubject: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:14 pm

Im currently feeding both my boys Fromm Gold but I am going to switch them to TOTW because I have heard such good things about it. But I have 2 questions...

*Atticus: 27 months old. ~53lbs
*Kronos: 22 months old ~60lbs

1) Im currently feeding them both 3 cups of food a day. My oldest is a picky eater and sometimes won't eat all 3 cups in a day(he is served all 3C at once) but my younger one begs for more food all the time(he is served 1C for bfast, lunch, dinner) and would probably eat a 30lb bag in one sitting if i let him Wink So my question is, once i switch, how much should i feed them both?

2) I want them on the same flavor obviously to save time/money. Which one do you recommend? Atticus had stomach problems as a pup and took nearly a year to find a food that he could stomach. Fromm was one of those that he loved as well as kronos. Im weary about switching but I'm hoping with the good reviews of TOTW that he will like it and not get sick again. Kronos eats whatever, whenever, and has a stomach of steel!

Thank you Smile
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:11 pm

One of the reasons why I went with TOTW, it's slightly cheaper than Fromm, Accana, Orijen, and has 5 flavors, although my girl only likes the bird and the bison flavors. So I do switch between those 2 flavors. Feeding amounts are about the same 2 1/3 to 3 cups daily are the recommendations on the package for 40-60 pound dogs. Miya has a very sensitive tummy too and she does very well on it. Never gets sick anymore. Honestly I would feed them the same way, they are old enough to half it and feed twice a day vs 1 or 3 times a day. Your one guy who you give all at once may end up eating it all by splitting. Your other guy will feel more full by giving twice a day vs three times. The 2 flavors I feed are the highest protein content that TOTW offers, protein = more full feel to the dog.

Hope that helps, and remember to slowly transition to the new food.

Renee
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:28 am

I'm curious as to why you want to switch in the first place. The only reason I see in your post is that so many people recommend TOTW. And yet, I would consider Fromm more highly than TOTW. So if your dogs do well on it then why switch? Especially if you are wary because of the one with a sensitive stomach.

Most people use TOTW because it's a bargain grain free food that has a number of formulas that suit a lot of dogs. I would recommend Fromm over TOTW any day if you have the budget for it and your dogs do well on it. As a side note, I prefer their Four Star line over their Gold line (less grain).

Fromm is a smaller, family owned operation that manufactures their own food in smaller batches. TOTW is manufactured in huge batches by Diamond who has had numerous recalls time and time again. Unless you're looking to downgrade or spend less money I wouldn't switch...but that's just my humble opinion.

Also, 3 cups a day is a LOT for any adult husky that is not a working dog. For the average companion it is not surprising that he will not eat all of it. I would expect the average companion adult to eat maybe 1.5-2 cups a day depending on activity level.

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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:01 am

@MiyasMomma wrote:
protein = more full feel to the dog.



Protein percentage does not equate to greater satiety. Let's illustrate this for clarity.

If you ate a bite, let's say 1 oz, of a porterhouse steak you'd be pretty hungry after that one bite but you consumed roughly 7 grams of protein and 100 calories.

Now if you ate multiple bites, let's say 6 oz, of broccoli you'd be less hungry because you ate more volume yet you again consumed roughly 7 grams of protein and 50 calories.

So in that example, each portion of food gave you 7 grams of protein yet the amount you had to eat to acquire those 7 grams is very different. Multiple bites of broccoli will be more satisfying (fullness wise) than a single bite of steak. This is why the blanket statement "protein = more full feel to the dog" cannot be applied. Wink

More volume equals more fullness.

Here's another example. If the feeding amounts are equal on 2 different formulas, let's say 3 cups, of TOTW yet the protein percentage is different (let's say one is TOTW High Prairie 32% and the other is TOTW Pacific Stream 25%) then that again refutes the above statement of protein equating to more satiety. 3 cups will fill your stomach the same amount regardless of whether that 3 cups comes from a formula with 32% protein or 25% protein. Both foods will make your stomach feel equally full yet one has more protein.

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Ericobeasto
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:39 am

I feed taste of the wild. Koda does well on it. And i love that i can change flavor every time i get a new bag and him not get sick. And the price is great. However i dont like that its made by diamond. If i could find a food that has the variety, price and quality as totw i would change. Anybody have suggestions.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:54 pm

Val,

I agree that Fromm is a better food than TOTW, Fromm is not available for me, and i do like the variety of TOTW. I will explain myself on the protein through human experience, I have low blood sugar, protein will give me the boost and full feeling when I start to feel my sugar levels go down, the other very important aspect in low blood sugar diet is fiber, both protein and fiber fill a human up, full feeling lasts longer, and you don't have to consume as much to feel this way compared to carbs. And I don't care how many vegies you give me, nothing will stop a blood sugar episode for me other than protein. This is not an argument, I respect you opinion greatly on nutrition, but the more protein the full effect is there. I went vegan many year ago to lose weight, feeling that meat was the bad guy in my weight gain. I don't care how many vegies and beans you gave me I never felt full, I had to eat several meals a day, yes I lost weight, but I was never satisfied. I started researching and discovered protein and fiber are the keys to being full, and full longer, therefore I eat less and have a satisfied belly. I look for high protein, moderate amount fiber in my foods, as well as my dog.

This was an excerpt from Beef magazine.
Do you really need meat to get protein? VeganStreet.com says no. The activist group posted this graphic in the Albany Times-Union stating that, “Beef has 6.4 grams of protein/100 calories” and “Broccoli has 11.1 grams of protein/100 calories,” but is that the whole story?

Let’s look at it this way: one cup of broccoli contains 31 calories, which means you would have to eat more than 3 cups of broccoli to get 11.1 grams of protein. Moreover, VeganStreet.com underestimates the grams of protein in a serving of beef. A 3-oz. serving of beef provides 25 grams of protein. Active individuals, pregnant women and growing teens are encouraged to get 75-80 grams of protein/day, which would mean you would have to eat 24 cups of broccoli to reach that 80 grams of recommended protein vs. 9-10 oz. of protein (the size of a decent steak) to reach those protein recommendations.

Again Val I don't mind a debate, this is not me arguing with you, just giving you the other side of the coin.

Renee
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:02 pm

The "more volume equals more fullness" I feel would be false, why is it with high end dog food you can feed your dog less than a poor quality dog food? The standard poor quality dog food has corn and you have to feed more to satisfy hunger, where as a high end dog food has no fillers(grain free) and a significant amount more in protein, you feed less and they feel full. Just my take.
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Huskyluv
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:25 pm

Okay, I think we're getting a bit off track and going in the wrong direction with the whole meat versus vegetable protein example. That was merely used as a simple illustration to point out the issue of using a blanket statement like the one which I previously pointed out. There are more factors, as you just proved with your post, that go into foods being filling than simply their protein content. In essence, you proved my point, in a roundabout way, that you cannot simply say, to quote you (Renee) "protein = more full feel to the dog." There is more to it than that, you just said it yourself, so that simple statement is not fair. Not looking for a debate either, just wanting people to not look only at protein percentage thinking it will make their dog fuller when seeking out diets for their pets.

You need to feed more of a low quality food than a high quality food because the low quality food contains more filler ingredients which either cannot be digested or cannot be properly utilized. It has nothing to do with how full the animal feels. You feed less of a quality food because it is more bioavailable and the animal gets the same or more benefit from eating less than it would a lower quality food.

The topic is TOTW, you yourself are implying that feeding the same amount of one TOTW formula is going to make a dog more full than feeding another TOTW formula. Both formulas contain meat, so it's not a case of meat vs veggies, so 3 cups is 3 cups and a dog is going to feel equally full regardless of the protein percentage.

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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:48 pm

@Huskyluv wrote:
Okay, I think we're getting a bit off track and going in the wrong direction with the whole meat versus vegetable protein example. That was merely used as a simple illustration to point out the issue of using a blanket statement like the one which I previously pointed out. There are more factors, as you just proved with your post, that go into foods being filling than simply their protein content. In essence, you proved my point, in a roundabout way, that you cannot simply say, to quote you (Renee) "protein = more full feel to the dog." There is more to it than that, you just said it yourself, so that simple statement is not fair. Not looking for a debate either, just wanting people to not look only at protein percentage thinking it will make their dog fuller when seeking out diets for their pets.

You need to feed more of a low quality food than a high quality food because the low quality food contains more filler ingredients which either cannot be digested or cannot be properly utilized. It has nothing to do with how full the animal feels. You feed less of a quality food because it is more bioavailable and the animal gets the same or more benefit from eating less than it would a lower quality food.

The topic is TOTW, you yourself are implying that feeding the same amount of one TOTW formula is going to make a dog more full than feeding another TOTW formula. Both formulas contain meat, so it's not a case of meat vs veggies, so 3 cups is 3 cups and a dog is going to feel equally full regardless of the protein percentage.

Amen! And, the different formulas of TOTW, as other foods, have different calorie counts per cup.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:44 pm

Agreed, and I apologize for going off topic. Unfortunately the OP seemed familiar, so I went digging and OP had a similar thread back in April or May. I have a carbon copy memory, hate the fact that I do. OP can correct me, however, I believe she is currently feeding Fromm Large breed dog food. Huskies are not large breed, she is also over feeding, imho. When looking at the ingredients of the large breed, they pack a lot of grains vs TOTW is an all life, all breed dog food, that is grain free. Although I don't have Fromm available to me, I'm guessing their grain free is more expensive. I feel that her huskies would do better with a grain free, and more like 1.5 to 2 cups daily, to maintain their weight. I'm wondering if the OP thinks her dogs need to weigh more? When in fact her 2 are at the top end on weight for the breed.

OP If I fed my girl kibble only I would be feeding a top end kibble that is grain free and max 2 cups on a high exercise day. If your dogs do not exercise much, which again I believe I read the OP saying that, 1.5 cups of grain free kibble per day should be more than adequate.
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arooroomom
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:58 pm

I echo what Val says about TOTW vs. Fromm... If you're feeding a quality food now, no need to downgrade to a lower quality manufacturer. Especially when Fromm offers a grain free line.

I also think you may be feeding too much.

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HowlHowl
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:36 pm

I would never feed a dog I loved anything made by Diamond. TOTW is cheap for a reason.

Farmina and Fromm make the best foods in terms of ingredient quality that you can buy. If this was ten years ago I would say Champion made good foods but that is no longer the case and I expect they will continue to decline when they start coming from Kentucky.  Yes Kentucky.....

The only criticism of Fromm is that the GF foods are low in protein whereas Farmina's are 37% and don't have peas, or lentils or chickpeas, so the protein is from animal ingredients.
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AtticusKronosVulcan
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:07 pm

well that solves it, ill be staying with Fromm. I didn't realize those other facts about TOTW and I do not like the fact that they are made by a larger company that has had some recalls. NO bueno! I will not be feeding that to my boys.

In response to someone, (sorry short on time here and can't go back and look) I do not think my boys need to weigh more. I was simply asking how much i should feed them. I never said they need to eat more or weigh more. I was asking for advice. My boys are perfect in their own ways Smile

They have 1/3 left of their Gold Fromm right now so when i go back to the store for their next batch I will look for the 4 star version. Its a small family owned store though so i don't know if she carries all varieties of Fromm

Thank for the help guys!
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Mobezilla
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:04 pm

Yup I'd definitely stick with Fromm :] I originally fed TOTW because of the popularity and good reviews but I upgraded to Acana and Orijen and actually just bought my first bag of Fromm to add some variety. The pups like those three brands a lot.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:28 am

Mespencer, It was me that asked, I had read a previous thread of yours, and actually this and that one was very similar, my apologies for remembering. Most of us on this particular thread felt you were over feeding. I still agree and never disputed that Fromm is a superior dog food over TOTW, and agree with Megan that Acana and Orijen are better as well. I did a massive research for my own peace of mind, the Fromm 4 star is similar priced to Fromm Gold and imho better. I also discovered that at some online retailers Fromm was the same price as TOTW. It was quite a learning experience to say the least. I knew of the TOTW recall in 2012, I felt after this amount of time there would be no problems, however, through my research of Fromm they source only here in America and I can't find that type of info for TOTW, I also wasn't aware it was a diamond product until now.

Mespencer, unless your beautiful guys(seen their pics they are handsome) are hard working huskies you are over feeding with 3 cups a day. Myself and Val did mention 1.5 cups a day for a low exercise day to 2 cups a day for a high exercise day is sufficient on maintaining their weight and be healthy.
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Mobezilla
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:05 pm

@MiyasMomma wrote:
Mespencer, unless your beautiful guys(seen their pics they are handsome) are hard working huskies you are over feeding with 3 cups a day. Myself and Val did mention 1.5 cups a day for a low exercise day to 2 cups a day for a high exercise day is sufficient on maintaining their weight and be healthy.

I definitely agree with all this.. and I'd like to chime in that I TOTALLY missed the whole weight thing!

Let's get a break down here:
Cloud - 19 pounds (8.6 kg)
Yuki - 34 pounds (15.4 kg)
Lyon - 36 pounds (16.3 kg)
Link - 45 pounds (20.4 kg)

Summertime, when we are not working AT ALL, and only going to the dog park for minimal exercise:
Cloud gets 3/4 cup a day.
Yuki gets 1 cup a day.
Link gets 1.25 cups a day.
Lyon gets 1.5 cups a day (only because he's a growing puppy).
This is on Fromm or Acana.. if it's Orijen, due to the higher protein, I'd have to lower the amounts even more, but I hold off on feeding Orijen until working season.

Fall/wintertime, we ARE working! This is at approx 25 miles a week once we work up to it.
Cloud gets 1 cup a day.
Yuki gets 1.5 cups a day.
Link gets 1.75 cups a day.
Lyon may get 2 cups a day, but may have to lower to 1.5 as he is getting older.

Wintertime when we have built up to approx 50 miles a week and have super cold temps and lots of snow.
Same amounts as above, but we bump up to Orijen food with the higher protein.

So even in my heaviest working season, my heaviest grown dog, at 45 pounds, only gets less than 2 cups a day on a high protein food. This same dog in normal circumstances would get less than 1.5 cups a day. So I'd definitely watch and probably feed less. ^-^
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techigirl78
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PostSubject: Re: Switching my boys from Fromm to TOTW...   Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:45 pm

I feed TOTW, so I'm not sure that is fair comparison if you are sticking with another product. My shepherd mix is 55-60lbs and she gets 2 cups a day. Loki is about 65lbs and gets 3 cups, but to be fair he is a very slim 65lbs at 27" tall. There are days when he doesn't eat all of his food and I don't really force the issue too much. Ichigo came to me underweight at 5 months old. He currently gets 4 cups, but I'm weaning him down now as his weight improves.
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