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 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems

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Abaroud
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PostSubject: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:22 am

Hi All,

So if you recall I have a Husky named Bella, she has been having eating problems since we got her back in March, she's almost 9 month old now. First when we got her she was eating royal canin when we got her from the breeder I slowely switched her to taste of the wild and her stomach never got adjusted, then moved her to Orijen slowely and she started eating it for two month, but for the past month and a bit she is not eating her food.. she eats like two bites, we then switched her to taste of the wild puppy and she liked It, but again shes not eating a lot anymore.. unfortunaly when we take her for a walk she steals other dogs popand eats it. today she woke up pooed in her yard, then ate the poop.. I read online this could be due to nutrtion problems. she just doesn't like dog food.. she keeps eating anything but dog food.. we are considering making her home cooked food on daily basis.. chicken/beef

Can anyone advice on the poop eating issue?
Also we wana start feading her chicken beef not raw, but home cooked.. can someone give me tips on what to do to help her eat.

Shes around 17kg and has 20-30 minutes a walk a day.
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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:07 am

I wanted to add that we also tried giving her taste of the wild cans she liked them at the start, but also stopped eating as needed.. today morning she ate her poop and about 3pm she threw up...

Also when we put her food down to eat she smells it and walks away, sometimes she comes back has one or two bites and leaves..
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:34 am

Home cooking dog food requires you balance the food. Especially since she is still a puppy. So meat, bone, organs to certain percentage. You can start by topping her kibble with meat. Mix the meat in so it's not as easy for her to pick just it out. I've heard mixed things about poop eating. Some say it's because they aren't processing everything so they re-eat. Others mineral issues. Some just hunger reasons. They will eat grass for similar reasons too. If I recall correctly she just had her heat and going off food or eating smaller amounts during that is normal. If she has a false pregnancy then it can extend a few weeks longer than the actual heat. At 30 minutes of exercise a day she could be starting to self regulate but is still a little young for that.

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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:32 pm

Thanks for the reply. Well Bella had her heat almost one month ago, and she's not pregnant for sure.

For raw feeding what I read online is a mix of 80% meat, sinew, ligaments, fat 10% edible bone 5% liver 5% other organ meat. now do I need to cook the meat + liver organs etc..? cooked with water I mean? Also does she need any carbs? fruits? vegetables? or this Raw diet is good enough?

Can anyone recommenced a small meal to try for a week? P.S How I going to find raw bones..?
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:08 am

Yes, those are the ratios and you do not need to cook any of it. Just weigh it out. You should be feeding 3-4% of her EXPECTED adult weight. So if you think her adult weight should be around 50 pounds then you would be feeding around 2 pounds a day total (if feeding 4%. Dial back if she puts on too much weight). Example: 26 ounces muscle meat (chicken drumsticks, hearts, ground beef (should also be broken into 3 different sources. ie. beef, chicken, fish. Don't feed all chicken or all goat)). 3 ounces bone (bone from chicken drumstick, pork rib bone) 1 ounce liver. 1 ounce other organ (kidney, brain, spleen). Those are rounded numbers so to be spot on you will have to have a scale that will do grams. I don't do grams. Always have worked in ounces. To figure bone there are some charts around. This is a great resouce:

The Raw Feeding Community Bone Percentages

Find whatever bone in meat you are feeding on the list, weigh the piece, then calculate the weight of the bone in it based on the percentage the list says it is. Example: A 6 ounce chicken drumstick has around 1.9 ounces of bone. If your dog is a gulper and you can't safely get bone down her or she won't consistently eat the bone you can look at a calcium supplement for the meals that either don't have bone or on the days where she is refusing to eat the bone with the rest of her food. Biggest thing is balance. She has to get that bone content somewhere and it has to be balanced with the rest of the food if you are feeding her more than 20% raw. Some will feed half kibble and half raw. This is fine but if over 20% of her daily food intake is raw it needs to be balanced raw. If it's not she will be missing out on important nutrients and her poop will most likely become loose. Bone is a form of fiber as well as calcium source.

Veggie and fruits are a sort of grey area of need. Some people say dogs absolutely don't need carbs, other say they do. In my mind it depends on the dog. Mine tend to get hungry and the veggies serve as good filler to help them with hunger as well as serve as good calories and added fiber since my one dog has loose stools sometimes even with extra bone content. I do give my dogs some veggies but you have to adjust your balance if you want to add veggies to the actual meal. If this is something you are interested in I can run some other numbers for you an example. Veggies must always be fed mashed or pureed in a blender or dogs won't actually get anything from them. If you want to feed as part of the main meal then they should not be more than 25% of the total protein (the 80%) and that 25% or less should be broken in half so that half of the chosen percent is starchy veggies (Peas, squash) and half the percent is non-starchy veggies (green beans, carrots).

Raw is labor intensive but is a great diet. You do have to adjust a bit for your dog so understanding the fundamentals and the reasoning behind the parts to raw is very important for troubleshooting. The more you dive into it the more things start popping up to introduce and adjust.

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Husky911
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:43 am

Hey Abaroud!

I second TwisterII's recommendation for raw food. I switched Echo two months ago and have never looked back. He's eager to eat it, has never looked healthier and acted healthier and gaining weight appropriately. He had energy before, but now he's insane!!! I dunno if that's a good thing or a bad thing Wink

Feeding raw is a steep learning curve, especially when you want to do it all yourself. I myself work really long shifts, and don't really have the time to buy, store, mix, and weigh the ingredients to the appropriate proportions. Therefore I turn to companies that do everything for me so all I have to do is buy, thaw and serve. Here in Canada, and more specifically Ontario there are sooo many options, often even cheaper than if you were to do it yourself, with meats that are free range, hormone & antibiotic free etc...etc...

Looks like you live in the UAE, and doing a quick internet search I found a company called Furchild? https://furchildpets.com/ Take a look at their options. Just giving you a disclaimer that I have never used their service nor do I work for them, I just did a quick google search for raw dog food UAE and this was the first result that came up. =D

If you're looking to start on raw, I think these companies are a great start, everything is pre done and pre-mixed for you, they have great information about how to transition your dog to raw and how to feed raw, and provide you with raw dog food calculators. It's also easier to provide and introduce a variety of different meats into your dog's diet this way. You mentioned that your dog is a picky eater, so introducing a rotation of different meats like beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, etc...will keep your dog interested in eating hopefully. Once you're comfortable and your dog has transitioned to raw, you can then explore the endless of options of how to feed and make raw yourself. =D

Welcome to the wonderful world of feeding RAW! Good luck!
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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:22 pm

Checked out their website and it seems so convienant.. I will give it a go starting tomorrow.. but again eating raw meat is somewhat harmful for most of humans.. how would it be safe for Bella to eat raw uncooked meat.. what it's bad meat not fresh or has some bacteria in it.. that's my only concern.. otherwise I would love to give her a balanced diet of meat... my mother who loves Bella so much is insisting on giving her carbs and vegetables... she is refusing this raw diet of only meat.. any words you can advice so I can share with her your comments! Thank you guys.

Mom says "that whenever she feeds her anything without carbs or veggies Bella she's keeps barking at her until she gives her a big meal with contains rice and chicken. Other times rice with chicken and meat. Also rice chicken and fish. Today she gave her some lentil with chicken, she wants to give her sweet potato with pumpkin and chicken. Bella gets bored from her food so mom wants to keep switching as per the above.

I on the other hand want to stick to a strict diet..

Please help Razz
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:32 pm

If bella was a human kid would your mom put up with that kind of behavior? The begging and the tantrums to get what she wants? Most moms wouldn't. Dogs aren't humans and their needs are different. Their digestive tracts are much shorter so food moves through fast. Because it moves through so fast bacteria from raw meat isn't really a factor unless you have a severely immune compromised dog. Humans have a much longer digestive tract and that is why we must cook our meat. You handle the raw dog food the same as you would any other raw meat. Wash your hands after handling it with soap and water and when she gets done eating do the same with her bowl. If it soothes your mom she can give her some veggies but they can't be a staple and they have to be mashed or pureed or she's just giving bella something that serves no purpose but to make her a bigger brat. With a raw diet variety is a good thing so she will get the switching that your mom likes to do, just need to watch what carbs she's giving and that she isn't giving too much. The pre packaged raw mentioned above is a great way to start while you are figuring things out. Most pre package companies will let you shop flavors so Bella gets variety like your mom wants in a convenient, pre balanced and healthy way as you want. Some pre packaged companies already have the proper ratio of veggies in there if your mom really wants there to be veggies. If not you can use whole veggies as treats, but tell your mom to make bella work for them. Never just hand her food because there's no will power. Whole veggies pretty much come out the way they went in with very few calories actually achieved. I give my male who needs to lose some weight dehydrated green beans. They serve zero nutritional value but he thinks he's getting a treat.

There is a lot of filler in meals that contain rice and potatoes. It sits thick in the stomach and likely makes bella feel less hungry but she isn't getting any real value or balance from that and not having balanced meals can cause her growth issues, digestive issues, even sight issues farther down the road.

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Husky911
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:33 am

Hey Abaroud!

TwisterII is spot on about your concerns for how your dog ingests raw food without getting sick. Dogs' digestive systems are not the same as humans. They digest food more quickly and their digestive systems are also more acidic which means bacteria does not have time to colonize. Dogs are also well equipped to handle bacteria. Their saliva contains lysozymes, an enzyme that destroys harmful bacteria. The combination of these 3 factors (lysozymes, acid and speed of digestion) all make raw feeding what nature intended.

In terms of feeding veggies to Bella, as TwisterII mentioned, unless you puree your fruits and vegetables, dogs actually don't benefit much from getting fed fruits and vegetables. Dogs just don't have the proper teeth, nor the enzyme amylase in their saliva to break down starch. Cellulose is also very difficult for dogs to break down in the stomach. Therefore if you feed a dog an apple, most if not all of it passes through his stomach without being dissolved. But fear not, in looking at the nutritional analysis of the dinners Furchildpets offers (should you wish you go with this company), 14% of their dinners contain organic vegetables including Organic Green Zucchini, Organic Yellow Zucchini, Organic Romaine Lettuce, Organic Sweet Potatoes, Organic Carrots, Organic Celery and Organic Parsley.

Typically you need to add supplements like fish oil and kelp to raw diets, but it looks like this company has done all that stuff for you! HURRAY! I also like your idea of keeping a dog on a strict diet, and feeding at regular timed intervals. Echo had too many problems with his poops to not. It made it easy to monitor his diet, poops , and also seemed to create hunger in between meals vs free feeding or getting full on things like treats.

Good luck with your decision! Let us know how Bella takes to the RAW food or if you like the Furchild company.

Cheers!
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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:18 pm

hey guys.. well I did end up buying a perpacked raw chicken and veg from the website.. they seem legit and Bella loved the food.. yet im still not so comfortable feeding her raw food how do I know the quality of the meat she's getting and the list goes on in my head.... I just dont like the idea, I would rather take the food and cook it.. I dunno just the idea of raw food isn't a good one in my mind. on the other hand I know Bella LOVES ziwi peak food, unfortunately it costs about 120-150$ for a 4.5KG which would only last Bella 18 days.. I don't know if there's some high quality kibble food that I can try for Bella which is tasty.. or maybe get some meats and cook them..

I would love some advice on this.. I would like to keep raw as last resort for now, I would rather try some other kibble although we have like 10 air frozen raw food packs down stairs..
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:21 pm

You can try freeze dried raw if you want. I give my one boy grandma lucys freeze dried. He loves it. Same high nutrient levels as raw without the raw meat mess if you don't go with the premix. The honest kitchen and sojos are similar items if you want to see if they are available in your area. On buying prepackaged raw you just have to look for labels that say they source organic or grass fed meats as proof of quality the same as you would when buying meat for yourself. Never cook prepackaged raw. There's usually ground bone in it. If you cook meat you will have to buy a calcium supplement and build her meals. Home cooking rather than doing raw I find much more labor intensive. Around here those who can't do raw for whatever reason tend to feed acana kibble or feed a freeze dried food like grandma lucys.

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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:31 pm

Alright guys I have decided that I will not be going raw with Bella.. I want to change her something other than Taste of the wild as she doesn't like her food, we had a sample of Ziwi peak and she ate it all up so fast like never before, but its very expensive i calculated that i would cost around 200$ per month to give her enough food..

I have the following options, what would you recommend, keep in my mind my budget would be a 120$ per month
Lily's Kitchen
Taste of the Wild
Arden Grange
Merrick
Natures Variety
ZiwiPeak
Orijen
Royal Canin
Applaws
Purina Dog Food
Eukanuba
ACANA
Dog Food Toppers

Or Canned
Lily's Kitchen
Green&Wilds
Natures Menu
Arden Grange
Merrick
Taste of the Wild
ZiwiPeak
Artemis
Natures Variety
Zeal Wet food
NuTripe
Applaws
Happy Dog
Butch
Royal Canin
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IamtheAlpha
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Hi Abaroud,

so I have been testing different types of food for my husky as well. My older Pekingese/terrier mix can eat any type of food but my husky, Kota was more sensitive and picky. My BF use to feed his 2 dogs taste of the wild and did well with it so we bought that initially. She was fine with it at the beginning but got bored. And then we switch to Evo Chicken flavor. It was ok as well. Not something she enjoys but she will eat so she won't be hungry. And then we tried the red meat flavor and all hell broke loose. Let's just say explosive diarrhea for 2 weeks. Initially thought it was because she ingested my older dogs arthritis meds (yes, she ate the whole bottle so we thought she overdosed). NEVER buying Evo again!

We finally switched dog food again and bought Nutro Natural Balance Chicken and Sweet Potato flavor. It was a success. Her diarrhea stopped the next day and she loved the dog food. Not ever changing her dog food again. "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

I know that this brand is not one that is on your list but thought you might want to check it out. First ingredient on the list is chicken. 25lb bag about $55. Steep but I rather make sure it doesn't mess up Kota's stomach. Smile

Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:23 pm

Of the ones on your list that I've heard of I would lean toward Merrick, Acana, Natures Variety, and Ziwipeak. Of those if any are in your price range where you are they are what I would go with if I could. Orijen is a great food but I don't expect it to agree with Bella. And it will be expensive. It's top of the line. Really, you have more flavor options with Taste of the Wild usually, if your area carries them. TOTW has like 6-8 flavors to choose from while most other brands only have 3 or 4 in kibble form. To save money you could always just top the TOTW with one of the wet foods. It will let you feed less of the cheap kibble while still giving her variety and quality.


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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:37 pm

Well, we tried Orijen and she didn't like, now were on Taste of the wild and she refuses to eat it without any mixed ziwi peak canned which is not a problem, but I would prefer to feed her once source from one company..

Basically I wanted to go with Ziwi peak which she would need about 8kg per month which costs 230$ per month which I cant afford. I can go with any other brand in the market even if it was 120-150$ per month.

What else would be an option at this point other than TOTW and Orijen? Anyone with a picky Husky that got lucky with a certain brand?

Thank you
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:15 pm

I would try Acana it is also made by Orijen, just a little cheaper and less rich for most dogs, or Merrick, their back country has raw infused and that may entice her better on wanting to eat, and may not have to use a topper at all. Smile Good luck.
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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:23 pm

You know what guys?? I am so consdersing Ziwi peak although I need 8kg per month worth 220$!! I guess I can afford it, but I just want to be 100% that paying 200$ a month I am getting the best dog food in the market? Or can I get a better dog food for 200$ anyone really knows the answer?

Is Merrick a better start or try before going for Ziwi maybe? Or Lilly’s kitchen? Or NV

If you could rank all of the above what’s the best ?

Thanks for the continued support even though I keep nagging..
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:50 pm

Price is often determined by area. I feed 3 dogs raw for less than $100 a month but meat is cheap here. My boy who eats grandma lucys raw if he was eating it full time he would cost me around $100 a month by himself. To me it comes down to which formula you are choosing but I would rate ziwi and nature's variety about the same followed by merrick. I've never heard of lily's kitchen so will have to look it up. I've heard of the honest kitchen and it's a great food. At the end of the day all these foods are great and any of them will be fine. The food she eats and does well on is the right food for her. You could offer the best scientifically proven food to her but if she won't eat it then it's greatness doesn't count for much. If she will eat any of those without itching or diarrhea then I would consider them.

Okay, I hunted down lillys kitchen. My order is ziwi, nature's variety, merrick, then lillys kitchen (really low protein). That is based on their grain free recipes. But if she will eat any of the brands I wouldn't hesitate to feed any of them.

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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:06 am

Hello guys. Well it seems like I found the solution to all my problems. I switched Bella to Ziwi Peak and my god alot has changed. her enegery levels are through the roof she's always active and wants to play and go for walks, her coat feels so nice and soft and she's growing and putting on muscles.. Im suprised by how much this food is doing for her and she eats it like she hasnt ate for month lol..

One thing I wanted to ask is when Bella goes for a 30 minute walk she comes back home and is breathing heavy non-stop and shaking (looks like shes so tired) and then she naps and goes back into her enegery crazed phase, is it normal for a dog to come back so exhausted after a 30 minute walk? she's been doing those 30 minute walks for the past month twice a day now..
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:10 am

Ziwi is an awesome food, so glad she is doing well on it. What temperatures are you getting in the UAE? It may be too hot for her, and you may have to adjust the time of day you are walking her.
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:47 am

Abaroud, Renee has a point - if I remember correctly, you're in Dubai and, at the air port, the temps are still hitting the 95°F mark.  With your humidity being as high as it is at around 50% that's HOT and muggy.  Your low temps overnight are still in the mid 70's which is too warm for a spirited walk. A 30 minute casual stroll morning and late evening shouldn't be too tough on her but if you're doing a fast paced walk, it's entirely possible that she's getting stressed by the heat.

Ignoring the differences in your body and hers (you sweat which help cool you off, she doesn't; she has heavy body hair which traps heat, you don't) what do you think you'd feel like if you were to run a marathon at noon?  

It's good to hear from you again and I'm glad you found a good dog food for her.  

(( If you don't get caught by customs, how about you send me some of your heat?  We're entering our winter on the desert, the low overnight was 50° last night and if we're lucky we might break 80° this afternoon. ))
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:36 am

I have two dogs that can go out and walk an hour on a 90 degree day and be fine and one dog that can go out and walk a half hour on a 75 degree day and you would think he was dying. Some dogs just don't tolerate heat. Especially if you have to walk on hot ground like side walks since dogs do a lot of body regulating through their feet. Can't remember, were you getting shoes for her to help with her feet and the hot ground? I thought it was mentioned way back when but can't remember now.

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Abaroud
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:15 am

Hello guys.. well the temperature right now is 75F and humidity of 31% she went for a 30-40 minute walk and came back no breath shaking etc.. there is really no heat at the moment its all cool wind.. the ground isnt hot to walk on either, I didn't get her any shoes, but i will maybe as you said since she regulates the temp from her paws..

Not sure if the 75F is not tolerable by her.. should i cut her walks into 25 minutes morning and 25 evening maybe? she did put on some good muscles that I can see when shes standing from her front legs!

My main concern is how to get her to walk and tire herself out to be a good girl through the day without killing herself!

Also I wanted to ask if 210 US dollars is to much cost against a raw diet? ziwi is 210$ how much would raw cooking and getting cost you think?
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PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:53 am

The cost of raw varies widely by area. I live in a cheaper area for meat and also get road kill and freezer clean outs to do diy raw and that is running me around $1.50/pound average. I do still supplement with kibble to offset costs so between raw and kibble I am spending around $50 a month per dog (I have 3 dogs though so I work extra hard to get that pricing). DIY raw where you balance and source yourself is usually a good chunk cheaper than a prepackaged raw like darwins. But with prepackaged you don't have to worry about making sure you have the right balance. I would think though with a budget of $210 you could probably get fairly close depending on how you were interested in going raw. Freeze dried, like Grandma Lucy's, might be a bit higher but I don't imagine too much higher. When I was figuring up cost on diy raw I took the price of my kibble per pound and then cut it in half because a cup of kibble weighs half what a cup of raw does and that was the cost per pound I had to source my meat under in order to stay at the same cost as kibble. For example if you are paying $3/pound for kibble then you would need to source your raw for around $1.50/pound to stay in the same price range.

The walk reaction could just be that day. Perhaps the humidity was higher that day or if she had eaten right before going on the walk. If you see it bounce around some days she has trouble and other days not, you may make a journal and keep track of when she eats, when she goes for the walk, temperature, humidity, distance, etc. and see if you start seeing a correlation. My boy just has trouble in the sun more than the heat. As long as he's in the shade he does better, but walking through a field with the sun baring down just zaps him which is odd since he's a white dog. Black dogs absorb the heat at a much higher rate.

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Location : west Texas

PostSubject: Re: 9 Month old Husty Eating Problems   Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:38 pm

I agree with Jenn, something to consider if wanting to go all raw, and that is you need to source minimal of 4 different proteins, so in the case of the US that would be beef, turkey, chicken, and pork at the minimum with fish a few times a week. You also will need a bone source like chicken feet, needing liver, and also needing kidney or pancreas. That may not be doable for you, it has to be balanced. I would stay with the Ziwi, as far as kibble is concerned it is really close to feeding raw. You could supplement the Ziwi with adding some raw meat, so she gets the benefits of raw, you could add in approximately 4 ounces of raw daily, reduce amount of kibble if she is at a good weight by an 1/8-1/4 cup. If she needs weight on her feed what you have been feeding of the kibble and just add in the 4 ounces of raw, and see how she does with that.
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9 Month old Husty Eating Problems

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