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 Lachlan had a seizure

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Windfishin
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Join date : 2017-05-11

Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyMon Jun 03, 2019 1:18 pm

As others have described. Last night relaxing in the family room, he suddenly gets up and acts like he needs to barf. I shew him out on the porch. He barfs up some yellow liquid that looked like urine, then collapses on his side and stiffens up, legs paddling and twitching, eyes rolled back, breathing frantically. I tried to check his airway and got bit. Noticed his tongue was a weird blue grey color. He peed during it. My wife came out and we just waited it out. Seemed like 30-45 seconds. Afterwards he was groggy and had thick white drool hanging out of his mouth and caked to the side of his head. Maybe 15 minutes later it was his dinner time so I fed him and he ate. Soon after he seemed totally back to normal.

I think this is at least his second one because about a month ago, I went out to see him where he was tethered outside and he had that thick white drool hanging out of his mouth and on the side of his head. Also a bit of a dazed look. I didn't know what to make of it at the time.

I read up on all the possible triggers and none really fit. He just turned 2. He scheduled for his annual comprehensive exam and teeth cleaning in 2 months. Wondering if I should bump it up?
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyMon Jun 03, 2019 2:48 pm

If I were you (famous last words) I'd bump up the appt - at the same time I'd be surprised if they find anything. While I've never had a dog who's had seizures, I've read enough here and elsewhere to know that the causes are often difficult to pinpoint.
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyMon Jun 03, 2019 11:18 pm

I can tell you from experience, it won't help you to bump up his appointment, unless he has another seizure, in which case you'd want to take him in to a vet that can see him right away, like an emergency vet. The best things you can do in the meantime are to document his seizures, date/time/length of seizure/ and anything else you can think of that might have been unusual for him that day, things like an exterminator in the area, maybe you just gave him flea meds, maybe he ate something he shouldn't have, things like that. It proves helpful to the vet to whip out your phone and try to get a video of his seizure as its happening as well. There really is NOTHING you can do for him during a seizure to help him except to prevent him from hurting himself so while it seems odd to whip out your phone to video it, it's really not, you'd otherwise just be waiting it out anyways.

I can also tell you from experience that your pup turning two is the magic number for a diagnosis of idiopathic epilepsy. Although it can happen from 1 year old to I think 4 years old, age 2 seems to be the magic number. Dogs older than 4, they start suspecting organ malfunction/failure, environmental, things of that nature.

Unless Lachlan is having cluster seizures, or more than one seizure a month, they shouldn't prescribe anti-seizure meds. If they do, consider it carefully, it's a lifelong commitment that has to be given at precise times each day and blood monitored fairly often. Too often, a vet will almost immediately put the dogs with high incidences of seizures on meds, but there is always the what if's it's not epilepsy and can be cured by diet change of a change in his environment, etc. once on the meds, it's pretty much for life.
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dvflyer
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Join date : 2018-04-07
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Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 12:28 am

Anecdotally, I've heard removing all grain/ carbs from their diet can help with seizures/ epilepsy.
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Windfishin
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 12:22 pm

Thanks guys...we've always fed him premium grain free kibble and no human food. The vet wants to examine him before he goes in for teeth cleaning so I am taking him in tonight for an exam. This vet has seemed a little prescription-happy in the past and if they shove a bunch of drugs at me tonight I will probably change vets.

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dvflyer
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Join date : 2018-04-07
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 2:12 pm

It should be noted that most Grain Free foods still have a carb source. e.g. Sweet Potato/Peas/ beans etc.

Ideally, you'd switch to a complete Raw diet of some sort as the best test of whether or not food could help.
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Windfishin
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Windfishin

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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 4:32 pm

Well, there goes hoping this was a passing thing. He just had another one. I didn't see the whole thing. I ran downstairs when I heard the sound of his paws beating against the floor and caught the end of it.

So of the seizures I know about there was one a month ago, one the night before last and just now today. We see the vet at 6 tonight...I guess I need to be open about starting him on the meds? He's barely been outside today and no triggers around the house I can think of.

Thanks for all the advice, I will start the journal, consider a carb free diet, try to get a video next time.
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Lostmaniac
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Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 5:50 pm

I would seriously consider cbd ive met several people who swear by it greenroadsworld has pet cbd and they have very good products. Here is the cbd research... small but promising https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190521101450.htm
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aljones
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aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 7:51 pm

@Windfishin let us know what the vet has to say. Maybe it's just me, but it sure seems like something must have happened (food, something he got into, ???) for what seems to be a sudden occurrence of seizures.

@lostmaniac This is a factor that's kicking in from my youth but I'm real leery of the "New and Amazing" and untried. Like you, I've read marvelous things about CBD - some bordering on the miraculous. We as a drug culture have been down this road before, something is absolutely amazing, only to find out that in 10 years it's dissolved your kidneys.
When a doctor writes a prescription for me, he'd better be able to defend his choice of drug because I will ask him and investigate on my own. Tired of being a guinea pig for big pharma ....
< I'll get off my box now, sorry >
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyTue Jun 04, 2019 8:37 pm

@Windfishin wrote:
Well, there goes hoping this was a passing thing.  He just had another one.  I didn't see the whole thing.  I ran downstairs when I heard the sound of his paws beating against the floor and caught the end of it.

So of the seizures I know about there was one a month ago, one the night before last and just now today.  We see the vet at 6 tonight...I guess I need to be open about starting him on the meds?  He's barely been outside today and no triggers around the house I can think of.

Thanks for all the advice, I will start the journal, consider a carb free diet, try to get a video next time.  


It's pretty normal. I've had 3 huskies with idiopathic epilepsy. The seizures start out of nowhere, in their second year of life, sometimes once or twice a week for the first month, and then leveling off to where it happens about once a month. You would think this qualifies for the meds right away, because they had more than one seizure in a month, but it didn't. My first Husky to develop seizures, started at 11 months old and he was instantly put on meds because he was having cluster seizures, first day was 9 seizures in one day, each of them cluster seizures. He temporarily lost eye sight in one eye but fortunately had no brain damage. Husky number 2 was his sister and developed her seizures starting very soon after turning 2 years old. She had about a seizure a week for the first month, I believe two seizures were within days of each other. She wasn't put on meds, had a seizure once every 3 months or so for the first year, and then they just stopped completely for 7 years. Husky number 3 was a blood relative of my other two, he too developed his seizures at age 2, had quite a few the first month, and then they leveled off to about one seizure every 3 months. He too, was never put on meds, and he lived like this for 3 1/2 more years.

Does this mean Lachlan shouldn't be put on meds? No. I'm only relaying my experiences. See what your vet says. They'll want to do a blood panel to rule out any organ not functioning like it should, ingestion of any poisons and things of that nature, but unless Lachlan starts clustering, he won't need meds immediately, you will have time to absorb everything the vet says, educate yourself as much as you can on seizures, and then go from there.
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Windfishin
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Windfishin

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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyWed Jun 05, 2019 12:30 pm

So Lach's blood work came back clean.  The vet would have started him on phenobarb if I would have gone along with it but she didn't object when I said I wanted to try other approaches first.  I asked about CBD and she said she couldn't officially make any recommendations due to federal law, but she said there's been some very encouraging studies lately. She referred me to a neurologist.  I asked if I could get some valium or something in case he's having a multi-seizure day and she said I could use the trazodone to help sedate him.

If it's external triggers, I think the mostly likely would be the weedkiller that's getting applied all over the place this time of year. But my gut tells me he's probably got idiopathic epilepsy.  I'll post updates whether we see this neurologist and what specific treatments we come up with.  

Thank you all again! So much less lonely with hearing all your experiences and advice!

Lachlan had a seizure Snow_d10
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

Male Join date : 2014-07-23
Location : San Diego, California

Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyWed Jun 05, 2019 11:48 pm

Lachlan is just so beautiful.

Idiopathic epilepsy is basically just seizures that happen for no known reason, so it could very well be weed killer being sprayed just as easily as it could be something as simple as house dust. I've never been comfortable with the diagnosis because it's being based on extremely limited information. The flip side to that though is how is it even possible to pinpoint the cause/trigger when there are literally thousands of things it could be. We just do the best we can for our pups. I wish you all the best, I've been where you are and it's not easy. I hope you keep us updated, and come to post to just get input, vent, whatever. It's something that can consume you, I got to the point that my sleep was so light that I was by their side sometimes before the seizure even got into full swing. It's not easy to do by yourselves so I hope you know that there are members here who will listen, and do the best they can to help.
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Windfishin
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyThu Jun 06, 2019 1:57 pm

Thanks Jimmy...and for all the support you've given to all the people posting about seizures here..

Did you ever go to a neurologist? The one my vet referred me to claims to offer "Seizure diagnosis and management". I made an appt. for the initial $155 consult in mid July. My vet said they won't put Lach under for his teeth cleaning unless the neurologist says it's OK. Can epileptic dogs never be put under?
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Artic_Wind
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Artic_Wind

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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyThu Jun 06, 2019 8:52 pm

I never did take any of mine to a neurologist. Being as there were three of them, all sharing the same DNA, it was my conclusion (and my vet) that their seizures were genetic. When my first husky, Blitz, was diagnosed, I had already been told it was a possibility that his sister, Anuschka, might also have it. Turned out she did. When Blitz passed away, from his seizures (and he was the only one on meds for it) I got my third, Malukhai, from the same breeder, and sharing the same father as Blitz and Anuschka. I know it sounds stupid of me to have done that, but I honestly thought Malukhai would be ok, it was my understanding that both parents must carry the epileptic gene and since he had a different mother, I didn't see the possibility. I wouldn't have done anything differently though, even though he lived a very short life, I am so thankful to have had him, he was amazing. Anyways, being genetic, I didn't see the point of a neurologist, I honestly don't think in my case it would have helped.

About not being able to be put under. I honestly do not know. None of mine had to be put under for anything. The only time they were put under, was to be neutered/spayed and that was before they had seizures. In your case, I think the vet wants to see what the neurologist says first. It's my opinion that having epilepsy wouldn't prevent a vet from putting a dog under, but depending on a neurologists thoughts/diagnosis for a dogs seizures, that might change.

Did your vet mention or recommend a thyroid test? I believe the thyroid can cause seizures
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Windfishin
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyThu Jun 06, 2019 9:45 pm

No mention of a thyroid test...honestly, this "chain store" vet I go to is fine for the every day stuff (barely) but anything else and I don't have much faith. She "prescribed" me some Purina Neuro Science dog food that turned out to be mostly ground up chicken beaks and gluten with a few herbs sprinkled in.

So I guess I'll meet this neurologist and see what they have to say.

I thought of/found 2 other possible triggers. Just after Mother's Day, he munched down some chocolate chips. Not enough to worry about chocolate poisoning but I've read chocolate can be a trigger. I just don't know if this was before or after his first seizure. I also read that dyes, especially Red Dye - 40 can trigger. A while back, probably before his first seizure I bought a box of Purina treats at the grocery store in a pinch. Turns out they've got every color dye in the rainbow including Red Dye - 40!

I've ordered some 'Pet Releaf" CBD oil that also has all the fatty acid fish oils and zinc. It's was recommended by a friend who has tried them all and says this ones the best.
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Lostmaniac
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Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyThu Jun 06, 2019 9:48 pm

Releaf brand is really good. I have my hubby on it for ptsd that causes seizures
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyThu Jun 06, 2019 11:46 pm

@Windfishin wrote:
No mention of a thyroid test...honestly, this "chain store" vet I go to is fine for the every day stuff (barely) but anything else and I don't have much faith.  She "prescribed" me some Purina Neuro Science dog food that turned out to be mostly ground up chicken beaks and gluten with a few herbs sprinkled in.

So I guess I'll meet this neurologist and see what they have to say.

I thought of/found 2 other possible triggers.  Just after Mother's Day, he munched down some chocolate chips.  Not enough to worry about chocolate poisoning but I've read chocolate can be a trigger.  I just don't know if this was before or after his first seizure.  I also read that dyes, especially Red Dye - 40 can trigger.  A while back, probably before his first seizure I bought a box of Purina treats at the grocery store in a pinch.  Turns out they've got every color dye in the rainbow including Red Dye - 40!

I've ordered some 'Pet Releaf" CBD oil that also has all the fatty acid fish oils and zinc.  It's was recommended by a friend who has tried them all and says this ones the best.  

The only diets I've come across in readings that apparently have turned seizuring dogs into dogs that don't seizure anymore (and I don't think it would be true of EVERY dog) are raw diets and diets that don't involve kibble anymore and instead, you are cooking your own meals for them.

If you can find a better vet, one you have more confidence in, it may help to have his thyroid tested. From reading though, it may have to be tested more than once.

I've read that about the red dye too, chocolate I've always known about it but never realized it takes A LOT of chocolate to have an affect (depending on a dogs size of course). With my first two, their seizures were so random that I couldn't even start to try to figure out a trigger (which makes me think it was genetic even more) but with Malukhai, I think often it was jet noise that could start the process of triggering a seizure. A certain military jet would occasionally fly around that is loud and often followed by a boom boom boom sound, Malukhai would hide when he heard it and often within a day or two (sometimes same day) he would seizure, but I also noticed time changes affected him too so it made me wonder if it was really anything that stressed him, or out of the ordinary that would trigger one. I also read about the full moon phenomenon and seizures, something I never knew of to make note of in any of their journals, but Anuschka did seizure on a full moon the night she passed away. It was 2 weeks after Malukhai passed away so she was extremely stressed I'm sure, too. Stress is a huge one for seizures so any way possible to keep Lachlan from stressing will be helpful and I'm thinking that is where CBD products can be extremely helpful. I too have heard good things about it, especially in regards to seizures. I have a FB friend whose husky seizures no other time except when going to the vet, it's stressful for her, so she gives her a sedative before vet visits and it works to keep seizures away so there is truth to stressful situations triggering seizures.

I'm very interested to know what the neurologist finds so please keep us posted
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Windfishin
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Lachlan had a seizure Empty
PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 12:08 pm

UPDATE:

6 weeks since the last seizure which was his 3rd. We went to the Neurologist last week. She checked him out to rule out any brain/nerve damage and concluded with 90% certainty that "he just has epilepsy". I've been giving him ~14mg of PetReleaf CBD with zinc and omega 3. Whether the CBD oil is helping who knows but it seems to help him act a little more mature. Calmer around our cats, other dogs, less whiny in the car, etc. I plan to stay the course for now and see how we go. The Neurologist gave me a script for anal valium to help bring him out of a prolonged seizure but it is $50 and expires after 6 months so I may wait till he has another seizure before I worry about keeping it on hand.
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Lostmaniac
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyMon Jul 22, 2019 2:59 pm

Releaf is a good brand. I have my hubby on cbd/thc for seizures. Hasnt stopped them but has really cut the number down and we have only had 1 911 call this year which is so much better then every few weeks.
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Windfishin
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyYesterday at 2:31 pm

Last Tuesday 8/13 Lach had his 4th seizure. Around 9 weeks after his last one. Based on the pattern emerging, I'm betting it's the spraying my landscapers do out at our beach house. His seizures have come at or shortly after our visits there. While he's there he spends lots of time tethered in the yard where he munches on the grass they spray for dandelions and digging in the beds where they spray for weeds.

This seizure seemed a little shorter and milder than some of the others but mostly followed the same pattern.
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Windfishin
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PostSubject: Re: Lachlan had a seizure   Lachlan had a seizure EmptyYesterday at 3:33 pm

<sigh> Make it #5 about 15 minutes ago. Sad

Was upstairs working and hear a chair knock over in the kitchen downstairs. Get down there and he's on his feet with foamy mouth.

He had a pair within days of each other 9 weeks ago and then they stopped. Hoping that pattern happens again.
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