A forum for owners of the Siberian Husky.
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterRegisterLog in
Congratulations Tetra and Tiana!, our August HOTM winners! HOTM - September : TBA!
Husky of the Month
Congrats Tetra and Tiana,
our August HOTM Winners!
Don't Wanna!





Thanks to all for this month's entries!
Forum Rules
1. Here we prefer clarity to agreement. Obviously not everyone is going to agree on a topic; here we prefer to talk out our differences in a respectful manner to ensure mutual understanding and respect.
2. Read the Stickies and Announcements. Each sub-forum may have specific rules which trump the Forum Rules in cases where there may be conflicting information. Read the rules of each board before you post so that you are clear on the expectations of the staff.
3. Respect ALL Staff and Admins. These people volunteer of their time and MUST be respected as well as their word adhered to. They are responsible for maintaining a free, open, clear and organized forum. Anyone found to be openly undermining any official ruling by a staff member will be warned.
4. Signatures: One picture only and no links. Images: To keep the forum looking neat and tidy, we ask that members insert just one picture only in their signatures. The picture should be no more than 200x500 pixels and should be of an appropriate subject, for example, your dogs and their names. Should you need assistance creating an appropriate signature, please PM an Admin and we would be happy to help! This is to ensure that signatures remain a welcome addition to our forum instead of a cumbersome distraction. Links: Hyperlinks in signatures--unless to a personal blog or photo stream of your dogs (like Flckr or Piscasa, for example)--are strictly prohibited. Please PM a staff member with any questions or concerns regarding this rule.
Rescue Spotlight
Our current rescue spotlight is:

Tails of the Tundra Siberian Husky Rescue!

Top Dog Website Award Winner!

Top Website
for
Siberian

Huskys


Share | .
 

 Dragonfliez box of pups.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Niraya
Breeding Subject Moderator
avatar

Female Join date : 2011-08-30
Location : Easton, Pennsylvania

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:00 am

The DNA test on those dogs will not come back as a "purebred" (Labrador Huskies probably are not in a DNA databases) - so yes, they will come back as a mix because no one is breeding the dogs true. They're still mixing them to get some bad traits out.

The probability that the dog DID come from the area known as Labrador makes it probably more inclined to be what is known as a "labrador husky" (The "breed" is named for the area not because of the mix) but since nothing is really known about the "breed" it's all up in the air

_________________


Back to top Go down
Sheba&Kennedy
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2012-08-13
Location : Nebraska

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:04 am

Very true, I didn't think about that. Sounds to me like "labrador husky" is like that "alaskan husky". Is this correct?
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/groups/379867695570/ Online
Niraya
Breeding Subject Moderator
avatar

Female Join date : 2011-08-30
Location : Easton, Pennsylvania

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:19 am

Similar but not necessarily the same. In the sense that they are a mixed breed - yes. But to my knowledge no one is trying to recognize the Alaskan as an "official" breed. While they're bred for a very specific purpose (which is something the OP will have to do - is narrow down the purpose for which these dogs are being used for) and they are being bred to a "standard" (just not a written, approved standard) - I don't think any actual "husky" was introduced into the "labrador husky" or if it was it wasn't until more recently (recent is relative here).

Malamutes made there way to Labrador - not the Siberians (at least if you're willing to read and believe what little information you can find on them) and then there is a lot of fuzzy in terms of the history of the "breed" (mating with wolves adding breeds here and there. Then breeding true for awhile and then recently adding more breeds to fix the aggressive tendencies). The problem with creating new breeds is that they always seem to not have a properly documented history - and that will be the case with the Labrador. So they will always be judged because of that.

In my honest opinion - There is nothing that these dogs can/are do/doing that another breed can't do and can't do probably better. Now, if this was a breed that was vastly out performing a current breed of dog at their job - then yes, I can see a need for that. Malamutes were freighting dogs, Shepherds are herding/guardians, you could even go the Ovcharka or Pyrenees (who were also freighters just not team freighters) or Malinois route for flock guardians as well.

You will never get the level of guardian temperament/psychology in this breed without adding an actual guardian breed to them and that goes against everything they're trying to do by breeding out aggression and making them more biddable. I think there are too many people wanting too many different things from the breed/dogs and that's the downfall.


_________________


Back to top Go down
Sheba&Kennedy
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2012-08-13
Location : Nebraska

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:21 am

Interesting learning. You are a dog bible I swear.
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/groups/379867695570/ Online
Niraya
Breeding Subject Moderator
avatar

Female Join date : 2011-08-30
Location : Easton, Pennsylvania

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:24 am

@Sheba&Kennedy wrote:
Interesting learning. You are a dog bible I swear.

LOL Thanks but I wish! I can talk dogs all day long Smile I never get tired of it and I'm always available to chat privately also Very Happy

_________________


Back to top Go down
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:40 am

Consider it considered lol. Believe me I don't want to jeopardize her well being. Like I said, I did learn something new here and I do want to learn more.

A huge part of breeding your dog is making sure there will be homes and owners for the puppies is it not? I wasn't just saying that, it's true, there are plenty of homes lined up for pups, the last litter we had left a lot of disappointed people, and I don't doubt it will be the same with the next. Forgive me if I say "sell" instead of "rehome."

And you know what, I can't find another one, the only other female Labrador Huskies I've got are her daughters or grand daughters. It's not a repeat breeding, we used a different male, which I find important and if all my explaining hasn't softened you a little bit by this point, I suppose no amount of it will.


Niraya
I did not say the goal is "raising and selling puppies" I said the goal is to raise and sell THIS batch, tho I guess I could have made that sound better by saying. "Raise and find good homes for this litter." That is my immediate future, and that is not nothing. Puppies don't raise themselves.

The supposed "labrador huskies" are also still being bred with GSD's, other herding dogs and other breeds to bring down their aggression and make them more biddable. You can't make a breed while still using other breeds.
What makes you say that? I've never read anything like that and will say right now that it's false. At one point they were bred to wolves, Malamutes, and German Shepherds, that was nigh 100 years ago, they are very much their own PURE breed. They just haven't had the popularity and cultivation that other breeds had.

There are very few purebred dogs left to work with, which is why I think it's important to gather interest before they all get lost in the mix and become extinct, like many breeds have already.

Also having less dogs to use leads to highly inbred dogs which leads to more genetic problems, and I didn't claim they have "NO genetic problems" only that they have no KNOWN breed specific problems. That doesn't mean I rule out health problems.

So long term, there needs to be a gene pool to pick from AND there needs to be interest in the dogs, it's not my only step, but I think one good way to do it is to sell people the puppies and let them know how special the dog is that they have.

I realize that it isn't going to suddenly be recognized by a club with it's own standard and magically be popular, I'm taking the steps that I know how to hopefully get it rolling.
Back to top Go down
Niraya
Breeding Subject Moderator
avatar

Female Join date : 2011-08-30
Location : Easton, Pennsylvania

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:48 am

Your wiki page prior to it being edited actually said they were breeding and mixing the dogs to work out the aggression. I don't pull random things from thin air.

Actually it still says but it doesn't state a time frame:
Quote :
Although they have been isolated, some Labradorian people have introduced the blood of the Alaskan Malamute and later for trainability purposes, the German Shepherd Dog. This has created a larger sled dog that looks strikingly similar to the Siberian Husky, but is much larger and more wolf-like.

Though I'd like to pose the question - how can they be a pure breed now if there are only (according to the wiki) 50-60 PURE Labrador Huskies left and many/most of which are unaccounted for or not known and incredibly hard to find? Just because *you* aren't mixing them doesn't mean these other people who supposedly have these other Labrador's aren't doing it? Aggression isn't conducive to freighting (or sled pulling of any kind) but is for guardian work as the dog would be alone which is why I say when making the standard you -need- to narrow down the work that you want the dog to do.

As I said - the history of this breed and what makes it so is so shrouded and unknown that you could be right, I could be right or neither could be right. I very much know the breed still has A LOT of aggression problems so that tells me there needs to be a lot of outcrossing done to other breeds regularly if it is not being done and you just don't know (or I don't know).

I never implied that inbreeding the dogs is what should be done- in fact I stated very much the opposite - that to MAKE the breed an actual recognized breed you will have to stop outcrossing to other breeds for genetic diversity and breed true to ONLY Labrador Huskies (therefore closing the gene pool) - and if that's the case you're probably tacking on another...10 to more like 20 years onto the breeding program.

Long term you have to have dogs that adhere to the standard BEFORE you create the popularity. People don't want dogs of unknown sizes and unknown temperaments (well it might get this big but there's a good chance it could go over or under and they might have this kind of temperament, but sometimes they're more aggressive or not so much) and unknown health (which will only come with breeding true or anything after an F1 cross) which is why it's important to already have an established standard and are already working towards breeding true to that "ideal".

_________________




Last edited by Niraya on Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
HuskyMom09
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2012-11-01
Location : Spokane WA

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:03 am

It takes more than some indiscriminate breeding to get a breed recognized. It would behoove you to get in contact with others that share the like minded goal of getting this breed officially recognized. These others should be outside of your lines ideally. You need to start by forming a Parent Group, writing an actual breed standard, gathering a detailed breed History, compiling a book of pictures of puppies and adults both past and present along with tracing lineage if possible, and closing the stud books on what lines are establishing the true breed. Once you have a written standard and history of the breed you should know what to be aiming for in your breeding and need to have multiple kennels breeding true for at minimum 6 generations with documentation in proper order to prove this has been accomplished. Get all that in order and apply with a reputable Kennel Club for recognized status as a pure breed.

There should also be a list of required health tests breeders should be having performed in order to ensure no genetic faults are being passed down the lines...with the variety of mixes in this breed nothing really should be ruled out.

Honestly just breeding and producing puppies you call by one name doesn't necessarily make it true-

Back to top Go down
http://www.keahisiberianhuskies.com
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:21 am

Kelsey

Woops didn't see your post.

Wiki isn't my only source for one, Wiki is missing some key points actually and I've been searching around for more info that I can link. I've been reading and researching on the breed going on four years now, I've seen them mentioned on tv and on different canadian websites, I didn't just suddenly decide, OH hey that breed looks cool so I'm going to call my dogs Labrador Huskies!

Previous owners of the dogs have told me themselves that they came from Canada and that they are "Labrador Husky."

Yes I've had their hips and eyes tested and have had more then one vet "Deem them healthy."

Hey, sometimes people can go awhile before they learn something that should be obvious or common knowledge, it's not becaue they haven't looked. I've read a lot (apparantly not enough) of stuff about keeping, feeding, raising, breeding, training, and working dogs. I'd like you to show me an article or anything that says that. Because 'over breeding is bad' but where are the specifics? I'd like to read it.

DNA test are breed specific aren't they? I doubt Labrador Huskies are known enough to have that test.

They haven't pulled SLEDS but I've made harnesses and had them pull different things (also tried getting the Shepherds to do it too, the Huskies can pull things shepherds couldn't dream of) like logs, or sacks of feed, ect. We don't have them pulling as a "job" but every once in a while when it hits our fancy or theres some sort of need for it, ya, they can do it. Attach 8 of them to sled and I'm sure you'd be amazed, but you're right I can't "promise things" with out proof, and I didn't really mean to come off as giving garantees, I was telling how it was with MY dogs that I've dealt with personally.

They guard livestock with people present, they'll also kill live stock if you don't watch it, they're not meant to be a shepherd dog honestly, thats just one of the things we do with our dogs and the huskies aren't an exception.


Also I'd like to add something, we've learned that our Huskies have INSANELY strong jaw strength, German Shepherds are supposed to have fairly high bite pressure, one of the highest of domestic dogs. (800 PSI tops I believe) Our huskies can chomp things down and tear things apart that make the Shepherds look like pups. Wolves have a PSI of 1500 respectively, so maybe that high bite pressure is some proof that they do have a fair amount of wolf blood in them. And we also noticed over time that our Huskies need less food then German Shepherds and stay much healthier on it.
Back to top Go down
mbarnard0429
Senior
Senior
avatar

Female Join date : 2011-08-07
Location : Michigan

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:24 am

DNA tests will scan for all different breeds present in the genetic make up.

If you have Hips and Eyes tested, would you be willing to present the OFA/CERF numbers of the animals?
Back to top Go down
http://www.facebook.com/mheath2
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:51 am

No. I don't have to prove anything to you and I'm tired of defending and explaining myself, there obviously is not any interest in what I'm doing here other then to educate me on how wrong I am.

I came here to learn and to hopefully find more people that owned or were interested in the breed that you all seem to think are some half wired mixbreed. I presented my situation and what I was doing full out and honest about everything and I guess for some reason I thought that would count for something?

Forgive me if I seem a little ruffled. I expected more advice and less judgement, and while I have read a lot here today that I find interesting and a few points that I want to research more, I'm having a hard time feeling grateful. Honestly I just feel ganged up on.

I didn't have to come here and be up front about everything I do, I already know that breeding is a hot topic, I'm not saying I know all the right things or that all my reasons are good or politically correct, but I'm not suddenly going to change my way of thinking because one day a group of people decided to tell me it was bad.

That doesn't mean I don't listen, it just means I've put a lot more thought into my work then perhaps you realize, and hey, maybe some of the things I know or think I know are under researched or misinformed but as I said before, I'm here to learn, not to get flamed.

Sure you're all entitled to your opinions but that doesn't mean you have to shove it down some ones' throat.
Back to top Go down
arooroomom
Husky Collector
avatar

Female Join date : 2009-12-13
Location : South Fl

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:50 am

I think we can say enough is enough.

_________________
Force Free Training Thread
Cheyenne, Mishka, Mickey, Rodeo, & Odin

Are you a Husky owner in South Florida?! Join our facebook meetup group!
Back to top Go down
ember breaze
Newborn
Newborn
avatar

Join date : 2012-05-15

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:51 pm

wow..... i do hope you are able to find someone that can guide you in the right direction that you are looking for Very Happy i feel like if a person chooses to breed their dog, then they should have a VERY good mentor. someone who can lead them in a great direction Very Happy hopefully you can find that person for you and Maya. Good luck!! sorry i couldnt help ya anymore than that....
Back to top Go down
SaraB
Rescue Subject Moderator
avatar

Female Join date : 2010-09-09
Location : Deltona, FL

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:07 pm

I'm confused. You said you don't know of any other labrador husky breeders, but where did you get Diesel or Sasha's mom from? Or was Diesel a son of Koen and Maya?

I'm fine with you wanting to "reboot" this breed, but seems nearly impossible if you really can't find anymore labrador husky breeders. Finding two that you just think, can't prove, are actually that breed and having nothing else is pretty much a dead end, cause you're just going to run into way too much inbreeding. Would you still be breeding these dogs if you had never found out there was a breed called labrador huskies? Like it's been stated before, I think if you seriously want to promote this breed you have to find more of them (which I know you have been trying), you need to write up a standard and figure out exactly what they were bred to do in the first place, not just want you want them to do (if every breeder out there only bred their dogs to how they liked dogs of the same breed would look/act nothing like eachother!), and you need to select puppies out of what you bred to keep or send to a likeminded home to breed and continue the line. From what you've written so far, it kind of sounds like you just sold all the puppies to pet homes except for Sasha. How do you continue your line if you just sell all the puppies? lol.

_________________
-Sara

Back to top Go down
http://www.thestormbornreef.com/
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:43 pm

ember breaze

I do have a mentor, he's owned tons of different breeds of dogs and he raised and bred chihuahua's very successfully. =) Believe me I didn't start breeding dogs on a whim and I haven't been going through it alone.

SaraB

Diesel is the son of Koen and Maya, and Sasha was an accident that happened between Diesel and Aris when I left my dogs in the care of a friend. I didnt even know she was pregnant until 3 weeks before she had her pups and suddenly started seeing signs of the pregnancy. (Aris is from Koen and Maya's second litter and the only pup of that batch that I kept myself.)

She was in no condition to have puppies and that pregancy and rearing those pups was exetremly hard on her, she almost died and it was hard to watch her go through that. I've never been so angry.

I was afraid the puppies would be deformed or worse (actually I didn't even know if Diesel was the father, or if she had gotten away and bred to a stray) but they turned out really good, really healthy and fat. So that was good, but I wouldn't risk breeding so closely inbred puppies again.

I did sell a lot of Maya's pups for pets, but a few I gave to family and close friends, Diesel's brother Havoc belongs to my brother. Aris has two sisters that belong to two of my closest friends. Aris and all of her puppies (besides Sasha who I ditched every time buyers came around because she is my baby and I couldn't sell) were rehomed as pets.

And to be honest, yes I would still be breeding them if I had never found out what they were. We NEED dogs at home and ranch, and these dogs suit us. If it was all about the looks, and their personalities weren't what we needed, we would have stuck to German Shepherds and kept Maya the wolfdog for fun as a pet.
We started looking for another dog (and found Koen) before I ever saw any information about Labrador Huskies, I just stumbled onto that information online months later.

As far as not being able to find another breeder, (which I haven't, online or otherwise) The dogs I found seem to have been imported, if I knew of some one else in my area with these dogs I would be getting in contact. But if the ones I have were imported, I might be able to find more that way, and have been keeping an eye out.

And you're right I can only go so far without new blood, I'm counting on finding more of them in time. I'm not going to give up on it yet. =)
Back to top Go down
MGoBlue
Senior
Senior
avatar

Join date : 2012-06-13
Location : Denver, CO

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:41 pm

So breeding mother to son isn't too close of inbreeding for you?
Back to top Go down
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:49 pm

Aris with her puppies. They kept climbing out of the dog house because it was too hot inside. (Husky puppies in July, not recommended lol)





They were born July 8th and the pics were taken July 15th.
Back to top Go down
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:53 pm

@MGoBlue wrote:
So breeding mother to son isn't too close of inbreeding for you?

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/genetics/inbreeding.html
(This of course, is just one page on the subject. There's plenty more.)
I read everything I could about the effects of inbreeding when I found out Aris was pregnant and that Diesel was most likely the father.
Back to top Go down
arooroomom
Husky Collector
avatar

Female Join date : 2009-12-13
Location : South Fl

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:56 pm

Linebreeding should only be done by those who truly have done mass amounts of research and KNOW their dogs and their lines.

I understand your love for these dogs but to the majority of people (especially those who would be interested in "Labrador Huskies" as an ACUTAL breed) want documented breedings and some sort of order. Not just mating dogs because they "supposedly" came from a certain area and "appear" to have certain characteristics.

_________________
Force Free Training Thread
Cheyenne, Mishka, Mickey, Rodeo, & Odin

Are you a Husky owner in South Florida?! Join our facebook meetup group!
Back to top Go down
Dragonfly
Puppy
Puppy
avatar

Female Join date : 2013-01-17
Location : Somewhere out in the sticks

PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:26 pm

Maya before she was mine, but I'd been feeding her for about a month.


Maya's 2011 Litter


Jet and Chives, brothers from the same litter as Aris who were here on a visit.


From left to right: Chives, Jet, Rogue, Roxy (on the ground), Havoc (that big ol' boy) and Aris.


Chives, Havoc, Aris


Bruce and Diesel paying homage to their Papa


Kode, Rogue, Aris, Roxy, and Zen


Big family reunion!
Zen up close and Diesel looking right at the camera, there are too many backs and butts to describe here XD The pups are about 8 months old I think, and Diesel would have been getting close to 2 years


Last edited by Dragonfly on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixin' typos.)
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Dragonfliez box of pups.   

Back to top Go down
 

Dragonfliez box of pups.

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
It's a Husky Thing - Siberian Husky Forum :: Pack Members :: Scrapbooks-