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 Loki had a seizure this morning.

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eander83
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PostSubject: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Sun May 21, 2017 12:08 pm

I know I have become more of a lurker than poster as on late. HOTM seems to be what I check the most but think I need some support and advice and I think I just need to vent so sorry but the word vomit. Loki turns 5 in July. This morning at 3:30am he had a seizure. I was asleep and heard the familiar sound of someone about to throw up. Nothing gets you out of bed faster than that sound. Loki likes to sleep on the bathroom floor because the tile gets nice and cold from the AC vent. I was cleaning up the vomit when he cough like he was going to puke again but then started to seize. I yelled for Kevin. Kevin held his head and it was the longest 15 seconds of my life. Afterward Loki was out of it for about 10 minutes, he didn't seems to recognize anyone for a few minutes and growled at Kevin. Once he seemed to know who we were he got up and started to lick his left leg for a bit. He got into bed and hasn't left my side since. I called the vet and have an appointment on Tuesday. They stated since it was only one we can wait but if he has another bring him in immediately. I'm hoping this is a one off. I don't know what he could have gotten into. I was out all day and Kevin was home with the boys. So now all we are doing is cuddling on the couch and hoping for the best.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Sun May 21, 2017 1:39 pm

Erica, I'm so sorry Loki had a seizure. And for you having to see it, nothing can prepare you for something like that, you feel your heart just drop. Your vet is right, since it's Loki's first, there is no immediate need to get him to the vet, UNLESS he has more, and if they cluster (one seizure after another) you get him to the vet as soon as you possibly can because then it's a medical emergency.

Since Loki is 5 now, I feel there is a pretty good chance you are not dealing with idiopathic epilepsy. 5 years old is at the very outer edge of falling into the epilepsy diagnosis, so while it's not impossible, I don't think it's likely (only my opinion though). There are other things though that are possible, like his kidneys, liver, thyroid, aren't functioning like they should be, theres more but the first thing I'd try to figure out is if there is anything around the house he could have gotten into while you were gone. Caffeinated products like chocolate, even soda (it happens sometimes) are culprits...was there anything that you can see, in his throw up? My past huskies had epilepsy, two of the three did the throwing up thing often before a seizure, and an emergency vet told me it was actually part of the seizure itself, that they aren't feeling good and often throw up before a seizure, one of my huskies would even eat grass beforehand, I think in order to throw up. Anyways, that doesn't have to be the case with Loki and he may have thrown something up that would give you a clue if he had gotten into anything during the day. Outside in the yard, things like snail bait, some insecticides, etc can cause seizures as well. Some snail baits are extremely toxic to animals.

Time wise, it's eeery but it's very very common for dogs to have a seizure at this 3:30am. Two of mine, 3:30 was the exact time. I read it has something to do with them being most at rest, and also things like blood sugars are lowest in the very early morning hours. I used to be a deep sleeper...until I had huskies that seizured, they wouldn't be making a sound and yet I'd wake up and go look for them, only to find them in a seizure. It was weird.

For right now, please don't stress. On Tuesday when you see your vet, they will do blood tests and stuff to figure out the origin of Loki's seizures, then you know more and can proceed accordingly. Please keep us updated too!
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eander83
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Sun May 21, 2017 6:14 pm

Jimmy, Thanks for all everything. Our backyard is astro turfed so we don't have to use pesticides or weed killer. The only things I can think of is that my neighbors tree is dropping mulberries right now and the boys are eating them or my nephew who works in a lawn care service got some chemicals on his shoes and Loki licked them.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Sun May 21, 2017 8:12 pm

Erica, I looked up the mulberries, because I really don't know anything about them, and found they're non-toxic, even in excess. They will however give a dog the Hershey squirts if they eat enough of them. There are some myths on the internet about them giving hallucinations (fermented) and that type of thing, but they are just myths. I think the mulberries can be ruled out.

Best thing to do is not stress, not good for you, and you don't want Loki picking up on it, and see what the vet says on Tuesday. I have a friend on Facebook with a husky and her dog will seizure ONLY when she knows she's gonna get a bath, I guess it just stresses her out that much. You mentioned you were gone all day, don't know if that's a rare thing or not, but even if your husband was home, maybe just the stress from you not being there when you normally are coulda stressed him enough. It's all just guessing games right now so I do think it's best to wait and see what the vet says.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon May 22, 2017 11:30 am

I hope it's a one-time freak thing. A neighbor or something sprayed something up wind from you that was no bueno and triggered it. Anytime I see an older dog (not old but far enough past the normal 2 year mark where things normally crop up) I just cringe. Anytime something in the 5, 6, 7+ range suddenly having seizures just remind me that we are never really out of the clear it seems. I used to always worry about Kenzi developing them even as she is around 8 years old now and just hate the idea. I've always tried to be extra careful when I first get a rescue since I don't know their background and what they might be sensitive to, but this just shows it doesn't matter how long you are careful, there's no set age for it to happen as much as we would like to hope our chances are lower once they get safely past 2 years.

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eander83
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon May 22, 2017 1:31 pm

Jimmy- I actually travel for work every now and then and disappear for days at a time. I just mentioned I wasn't home because I can't attest to what he got into, since I wasn't there. Loki isn't a clingy dog, he comes to you when he wants attention. I know you say don't stress but being at work right now I'm just a ball of nerves. I alerted my dog walker of the situation just in case it happens again and Kevin and I aren't around. I think I will feel better once I get him into the vet. Last night he was ok. I didn't sleep much so I heard all the little sounds, just Django running in his sleep.
Jenn- I hope it is just a one time freak out too. I went and checked if my bug people came and sprayed and not until the end of the month so it wasn't that. Kevin's nephew is living with us currently and working in a lawn company spraying fertilizer and weed killer, maybe Loki licked his shoe or his hand. I don't know I just hope I get some answers tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon May 22, 2017 4:49 pm

Sierra has had a few seizures in the past. one thing i have found to help bring them out is feeding raw honey when they come to for the sugar. also i know you are scared and want to be there for him but it is also important to try and film the attach if it happens again so the vet can see what is going on at the time and after the fact.
Every time it happened to Sierra i would call the vet and be told they can't do much after the fact. Keep a log of the events and time so you know. Sierra's would not happen close enough to point to any thing, we do stay away from some meds because of her past history having them. She has not had one in some time, come to think about it since we started her liver pills she has been good so maybe that had something to do with it.
Maybe a full blood panel would be good to do. do you have past records of blood work to check to? we started doing yearly blood work ups on S&J at 5, well sierra at 6 when we got her.

good luck, hope it was a one and done thing

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perwinea
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon May 22, 2017 6:35 pm

My previous dog had a few seizures. The vet didn't know what they were caused from. I began to feed her MSM (sulfur) in a powder form once a day. Besides being good for her bones, MSM is also a blood cleaner. I sprinkled it on her food. I can't be positive that it is what helped her but she never had a seizure again.
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Tue May 23, 2017 4:42 pm

I just happened to check out the forum today and saw this. First off, so sorry you Loki had a seizure. I know first hand how scary that can be. Yukon has had seizures since he was 1 1/2 years old and is currently on 4 different meds and still has the occasional one. He was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy, which basically what they say when they can't find any other reason for it. As it's been said, I don't think that would be the case here as they usually develop that before that age, but anything is possible.

I agree with the others, is try not to freak out too much (I know, easier said than done), and wait until the blood panel comes back to see what your next steps are. Hopefully it's a one time thing.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Wed May 24, 2017 12:52 am

eander83 wrote:
Jimmy- I actually travel for work every now and then and disappear for days at a time.  I just mentioned I wasn't home because I can't attest to what he got into, since I wasn't there.  Loki isn't a clingy dog, he comes to you when he wants attention. I know you say don't stress but being at work right now I'm just a ball of nerves. I alerted my dog walker of the situation just in case it happens again and Kevin and I aren't around.  I think I will feel better once I get him into the vet.  Last night he was ok. I didn't sleep much so I heard all the little sounds, just Django running in his sleep.
Jenn- I hope it is just a one time freak out too.  I went and checked if my bug people came and sprayed and not until the end of the month so it wasn't that.  Kevin's nephew is living with us currently and working in a lawn company spraying fertilizer and weed killer, maybe Loki licked his shoe or his hand. I don't know I just hope I get some answers tomorrow.

Ugh, Erica, when I brought up you not being home all day and Loki possibly being stressed about it, I forgot to put a question mark at the end. It wasn't meant to be a statement, I meant it more as a question, a possibility. Sorry Sad

The ball of nerves, I totally understand. And...I do know how difficult it is not to stress, I just didn't want you thinking worst case scenario and let it bring you down. When my past huskies started seizuring, I needed to know they were ok when I wasn't there, my mom volunteered to stay at the house most of the day, keep an eye on them, and it was such a relief to me, but man did my heart sink when my cell phone would ring and I'd see my home number on the screen. Anyways, I hope after your appointment today you are in a better place about everything. I was thinking positive thoughts for you guys today!
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eander83
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Wed May 24, 2017 8:22 am

Sorry should have updated sooner but was stuck out in BFE yesterday until Loki's appt. So I didn't see my normal vet (maybe a mistake?) same office but different vet. She did a physical examine and told me is in great physical health by looks and he lost some weight which is good. He is down to 65lbs. (side note: when my sister lived with me two years ago for 7 months Loki went from 60lbs to 72 lbs. I got yelled at by the vet because my sister was overtreating him and I didn't notice at the time.) She took blood and I'll get the results back on Thursday. But she already said he has epilepsy and told me to keep a journal of his seizures. She told me where the nearest neurologist was and gave me the med name Zonisamide that she would like to put Loki on. I told her I wanted the blood work back first and she kinda scoffed. Didn't leave feeling like we got a whole lot accomplished other than Loki kissing all the vet techs. So I do feel a little more at ease but I do disagree with the vet. She also stated that his seizure wasn't bad because Loki didn't pee or poop himself. Husky family - Is that common?
Ok now to field questions.
Jennifer-Luckily we do get blood work done on the boys at their physicals, so we will have a baseline. I'll have to look into liver pills
Mya- I'll have to look into the MSM as well.
Jimmy-Oh I know it was a question (or at least my mind read it as a question) my internet speak can be a little direct but I don't take anything anyone says as mean or vindictive. We good. Smile
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jschrader
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Wed May 24, 2017 10:42 am

Yukon sometimes will pee or poop when he has a seizure, but it doesn't happen every single time. Over the course of the last 4 years he has maybe done that 4 or 5 times (out of probably 100+ seizures he has had). He is also on Zonisamide, but when he had his first one my vet would not put him on meds until he had at least 2 or 3 within a few days of each other, and then they put him on phenobarbital to start with, and that controlled it for about 8 months. If he is on meds, use the GoodRx app to find the cheapest price. The Zonisamide can be pricey, and I used healthwarehouse.com and get it for less than $30 for 120 count 100mg.
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TwisterII
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Wed May 24, 2017 11:13 am

I think I would feel the same about dealing with that vet. Wonder is she gets kickbacks on that med? Don't know how you could definitively diagnose epilepsy and go right to meds after only one seizure and no test results back. I think I would want to follow up with my regular vet in the least.

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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Wed May 24, 2017 11:26 am

To feel like you left the vet with not much accomplished is pretty normal, besides blood tests and listening to you describe the seizure, there's not a lot the vet can do. However, to diagnose epilepsy after only one seizure, blows my mind. And prescribing meds already, wow! Generally, it takes more than one seizure a month and/or seizures that cluster, before meds are prescribed. Two of my own three huskies that seizured, were never on meds in all the years they had epilepsy. I think you are ok with having had the blood tests done and his physical exam though. I would not go back to this particular person if you need further work done by a vet.

The poop thing is new to me. It must happen cuz Jason has experienced it but none of my 3 huskies did that, ever. The pee thing was pretty common in mine though. I don't understand how it can be a "good" seizure without either of these things happening except for maybe the clean up part but... I dunno what to say on that one. Maybe by not peeing/pooping they are at a different level of seizure (?) like they're not completely losing control? I dunno, doesn't make sense to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Wed May 24, 2017 12:23 pm

When Yukon would do the pee/poop thing it would be with the grand mal seizures that lasted longer. Like I said, it only has happened a few times, so I don't think it's very common. Sometimes he has smaller grand mal seizures that only last a minute and he snaps out of it, and some times he has had them where they last a few minutes and in clusters where he is kind of out of it for days.

Since he has been on a couple new meds, he now will have more focal seizures where he is still lucid, but his eyes/ears twitch and he drools for about a 30 -60 minutes. And then sometimes he will just start running all over the place running into things. But afterwards he is completely back to normal.

My vet also suggested seeing a neurologist, but for an MRI it is in the thousands of dollars. Hopefully Loki's can be controlled, but yeah I would get a 2nd opinion. They should wait until the blood work comes back to say for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:42 am

Sorry I haven't update been busy with work and doctors. So Loki's blood work came back clean. That vet stated we should start Loki on meds now. I told her not right now and she got a little huffy. I got an appointment with his regular vet. She reviewed everything. She doesn't want to call it epilepsy yet. She is of the mind that we wait and see, Kevin and I agree. So far Loki has been his normal goofy self. He hasn't had another seizure yet. Kevin does plan on wiring up the house with cameras so we can watch him while we are at work. Thank you everyone who commented and helped keep me calm. If may not have seemed like it but you all really did help my mental state.
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:17 am

Glad for the update Erica. Also glad that he has not had another yet. So he never went on any meds right? I think there are so supplemental/nutrients that might help. (Abby's Kay had a seizure brought on by what she thinks was flea meds and started researching so supplements.)
Hope all keeps going well.

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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:22 pm

Erica, good news so far. I haven't commented because I don't have a lot of experience on seizures, however Colleen brought up something that is a possibility. My Miya had mini seizures when she was on comfortis and heartgard. Some animals do have them when taking this combination of flea and heartworm meds. I took her off of comfortis, left her on heartgard and use a topical for fleas and ticks and knock on wood, haven't had issues since. It might be something to look into, http://vcpl.vetmed.wsu.edu/affected-breeds that is something you can read up on. I don't know how much your vet would charge, but the link I provided will test Loki for $60-80. Just because a husky is not listed as a common breed to have MDR1, it is something to investigate if your dog has had a one time experience, or has them in intervals that coincide with preventives. I wish you and Loki the best of health and luck, and perhaps it is something as simple as this. Please keep us updated.
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:23 am

Well it is like I jinxed myself.  This morning at 1:30 the old familiar sound of someone throwing up starts. So I get out of bed and it is Loki.  He puked a little and then seized for about 15 seconds again.   He came out of it quicker than he did the last time.  So looking into holistic way to treat him, I really don't want to put him on meds if I can avoid it.  Super tired but had to dragged my carcass into work. Hoping I can get off early to go home and snuggle/nap with the dogs.


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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:25 am

Really weird that the vet wants to put him on meds right away after 1 seizure and looks more like a money grab to me because normally they only subscribe seizure meds when a dog has seizures more then once a month, when they last longer then 90 seconds or when they show aggressive behavior.
My moms dog has up to 20 seizures a year and is not getting medication for it because the side effects of the medication can be worse then the seizures from what i understand and are only to be used in more severe cases, so definitely not after one seizure.

It's scary to see anyway and i hope it's just this one time that Loki got a seizure, maybe he did get into something he shouldn't have and got a reaction from it. Wishing you good luck !
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:41 pm

Oh no, I will mention it to Abby and see if she has any input on holistic that she researched.
Hang in there.

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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:48 pm

Erica, you've been too quiet, anything new? Are you getting the help/advice you need or are you doing this all alone?
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:12 pm

Jimmy, Thanks for the worry. So Loki did have a 3rd seizure on the 17th of last month. It lasted about 20 seconds and he pooped immediately after he came out of it but he pooped in the shower stall so no real mess, lol. But since then nothing. I have been kinda going at it alone, but I have been reading a lot. I read on one of the other threads on here that rosemary could be a trigger and lo and below there was rosemary in some of the treats I was giving them. They haven't had those in a couple weeks. I also have Loki on a liver pill since Jenn said it helped Sierra. Just watching, waiting, and lurking (on here).
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:33 pm

In all my reading, Erica, I found a few very helpful pages, one was on a Malamute page that has so much useful information on not only an extensive, detailed list of possible triggers, but how to take care of the dog after a seizure. When I get home, I'll look for that for you.

Doesn't sound too bad with Loki. In epileptic dogs, frequent seizures are very common at the beginning, then taper off. Its when they taper off that a protocol on treatment, if necessary, kicks in. My dog Blitz, his seizure frequency and severity required meds, while Malukhai didn't require meds, and Anuschka tapered off to none for many many years. It just varies with each dog. . Hopefully the liver pill and watching for rosemary will help you and Loki even better.

So glad to hear from you! Keep us updated and if you need to talk about any of it, we are here! I'll look when I get home for things you may find useful/informational
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PostSubject: Re: Loki had a seizure this morning.   Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:23 am

I didn't think I'd be able to find it again, but I did! Yay! The website is: omalmalamutes.com

But what I did, is I took screenshots of their article so it can be read by you and anyone else interested in the information. Being screenshots, some paragraphs will also be in the next picture and since I'm posting from my iPad, they may not be all in order when they ultimately get posted from imgserv. But, I think this page is extremely informative and well written. It's copyrighted so I hope it's ok to post, I don't know how to just post a link to this specific page.

Anyways, here goes...























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