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 Sibling rivalry between littermates

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JoJo'shuskies
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JoJo'shuskies

Join date : 2013-11-28

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PostSubject: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyThu Nov 28, 2013 6:06 pm

I am looking for some advice/input from fellow husky owner. We got a female husky (Grace) over a year ago at 8 weeks old (she is now 17 months). At age 9 months, we were asked to take in her littermate, whom she had seen regularly. They are both fixed. We took him in (Dakota), and within a month he broke his front leg (growth plate fracture) and underwent over 4 months of restricted activity secondary to surgeries and recovery. During that time, the two had to be kept separated. Dakota began to show some aggressive behaviors (food/toy/treat aggression). We contacted a behavioral specialist, who felt that the behaviors stemmed from lack of exercise.
Once he was fully recovered, the behaviors settled down. Although he does occasionally snap/growl if he has a toy/treat or does not want to be touch (especially toward the kids...which worries me a bit). I truly believe he would never hurt anyone, and that it is only 'vocal'.
Dakota and Grace have a true 'sibling' relationship. They play hard and rough. They pull tails and ears. They run and wrestle. But they also snuggle up and nap together, and truly love each other. That being said, they have their fights. I have stopped giving them any bones/chews, as it starts fights. They will fight over toys at times. Our trainer told us to allow them to 'work it out' to establish 'rank', unless it gets too physical. Up until last night, this has been fine. They would growl and snap, and one would eventually back down. The issue, is that they are both the same age, strength, and temperament, and I don't think they have established 'leadership'.
Let me also mention, that over the past week, the dogs did not get their daily 2 hour trip to the dog park due to sick kids and bad weather. Which I feel, most likely, was the main contributing factor.
Last night, they were both given new identical stuffed toys. I left the room for a few minutes, and heard a huge ruckus. Within less than a minute, the fight stopped. When I returned to the room, Grace had both toys in her mouth, and a bloody muzzle and leg to match. Dakota was lying on the couch, without a scratch on him (although covered in her blood).
Trip to the ER, several stitches and a hefty bill later, we were being told by the vet that it is dangerous to have husky littermates, and that the chances are highly probable that the fights will continue to grow worse and more frequent. He highly recommended getting rid of 1 of them. My husband was shaken by the tussle, and really worried that it will happen again, or one of the kids could get hurt. He feels I am making excuses for the dog, and don't want to admit the dog is aggressive. I plan on calling our regular vet in the morning to discuss the situation.
Are their any other sibling owners out their (or multihusky families) with any advice/tips.
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Rigbyjek
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Rigbyjek

Join date : 2012-12-18

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyThu Nov 28, 2013 10:05 pm

I adopted my husky at 8 mo. At the time my boyfriend and I already had his littermate (Atlas.) I had raised Atlas from 8 wks on. When we brought in Rigby it was ridiculous. Rigby was a completely different dog than Atlas- he had been raised completely different, and the first owner was afraid of him. Rigby definitely ran the house with his first owner. They turned 4 today Smile The boys no longer live together- my boyfriend and I split when they were about 11 months, he took Atlas and I kept Rig, but they still see each other occasionally. I have found- having litter mates is COMPLETELY different than just having two dogs. Like yours- they played very rough together, but were inseparable. They never drew blood on one another though- I do not allow fighting in my house, period. Litter mates or not, I would not allow them to "work it out on their own." If you don't set rules for them, there's a high probability your going to see more blood shed in the future. When they begin to growl/snap at one another I would step in and ask them both to sit. They need to know you're the one in charge and fighting isn't going to be allowed. If you continue to let them work it out on their own- there's a chance the "arguments" are going to get worse rather than better. I don't think it's dangerous to have husky litter mates, they just have to know the rules and know that you are not going to allow them to fight-(esp. if there are kids in the household!) It sounds like you're being proactive- like not giving them bones (a high value item) because it starts fights- and that is part of having any two dogs together- management. How much exercise are they getting? Are there any other issues? Another thing you could do is work with them separately- this is ESPECIALLY important with siblings! Siblings can become too reliant on one another, time apart is good for them. Work with them separately and practice coming when called, sit, leave it, etc. Then put them together and practice together. This can come especially in handy if they get too rowdy- say with a toy, (it will take practice,) but you can "call them off" the toy or the other dog and get them to come to you for a tasty treat instead- this can prevent a fight if they're getting too rowdy. I would also recommend walking them together- Although time apart is important, walking/exercising is very important too! Huskies need A LOT of exercise. The more exercise they get the easier they will be to manage- and walking them together will help increase their bond as well. Finally, don't put them in situations where they need to compete- say fetch with one ball, etc. I think you said you got Dakota at 9 mo. and they're 17 mo. now? Have they always fought? Or is this a new development over something specific- like toys/food/attention, etc? Overall, I wouldn't panic. You just have TWO huskies going through their teenage phase Smile But I definitely wouldn't let them work it out on their own, that's just asking for trouble! Smile Good luck!
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JoJo'shuskies
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JoJo'shuskies

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyThu Nov 28, 2013 11:46 pm

They have always 'competed' over possessions, but never got aggressive. I usually watch carefully, and they do respond when I tell them to 'drop it' if they get carried away. I am definitely the boss. This altercation unfortunately happened when I left the room for a moment.

They normally get 2 hours at the dog park daily, where they usually will play separately (with different dogs) for part of the time. They definitely have different personalities, and like to play with different 'types' of dogs. We also have a large yard that they run/play in most of the day. We also generally take a 1-2 mile walk every evening together. This past week the kids and myself were hit with a nasty stomach bug, and it we had heavy rain (so they were stuck inside), plus they both spent the day at the groomers on the day of the fight.

I try to spend individual time with each during the day, where we play and work on training. They both LOVE the 'alone time'...it is just like having 2 more kids Very Happy 
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JoJo'shuskies
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JoJo'shuskies

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyThu Nov 28, 2013 11:52 pm

Our boy (Dakota), was definitely raised differently as well. he spent the majority of his first months crated, and had no respect for authority. To add his leg injury on top of trying to 're-train' him, was definitely a challenge. He has come a very long way, and has adjusted rather well. Our girl (Grace), who we have had from 8 weeks, is so much more obedient and well behaved....but I think boys are just goofier in general :-)
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Demon&Dakota
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Demon&Dakota

Female Join date : 2011-08-04
Location : Aurora, CO

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyFri Nov 29, 2013 2:59 am

I also have a pair of siblings. We got them both at the age of 8 weeks and we had our share of fights, tussles, and arguments. At the same time they were inseparable. Now at the age of 4+ they still have disagreements, but we haven't had a full-blown fight in over a year. They are also usually fine with treats (high value and otherwise) as long as they each get their own. It would not go over very well if one got something the other didn't.

Perhaps, you just need to monitor them and don't introduce anything into the situation that could induce a fight. Get back to your normal routine and see what happens when you do introduce toys or treats. Good luck. Very Happy
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Rigbyjek
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Rigbyjek

Join date : 2012-12-18

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyFri Nov 29, 2013 12:22 pm

It sounds like Dakota came from a similar situation as Rig- he was crated pretty much for the first 8 months of his life- lived in an apt. and with cats... He was set up to fail from the start Sad The sad part is, you would THINK they would have researched the breed- esp. since she was a veterinary technician and already in school to be a vet! Husky's need a lot of exercise- which means a lot of time... which vet students don't have! lol Smile Anyways, It sounds like you're on the right road- they had a bad day from lack of exercise during that particular week- I wouldn't over analyze it. Just watch for signals that they're getting too over stimulated and intervene. If they're crate trained and bones usually cause fights, maybe separate them and give them bones in their crates. Or baby gate one off in another room- you could do this during the time that you're working with them one on one, just a thought.I agree with Demon and Dakota's mom- get them back in their normal routine and see if it alters their behavior. More than likely the fight resulted from the change up in routine/lack of exercise. I don't think it's dangerous to have siblings. And it sounds like you're doing pretty well to me Smile Keep us posted!
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wpskier222
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wpskier222

Female Join date : 2013-02-11
Location : NYC

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyFri Nov 29, 2013 12:37 pm

I take issue with your statement that he was set up to fail because he lived in an apartment with cats. Dizzy is 9 months old now, and I brought him home at 9 weeks. It hasn't been easy, but he is calm and happy in the apartment, and aside from one rug in his alcove, he has never destroyed anything, and gets 2-3 hours of exercise a day (split up of course, not all at once). We also happen to have 2 cats that had never lived with dogs, and while they are not friends, they all keep to themselves aside from occasional curiosity about each other.

It doesn't matter if you live in an apartment, in the city, in the country, have a yard or not, have cats, birds, hamsters or horses. All that matters is that you research the breed and make sure you have a way to fulfill their needs and are committed to the amount of time and training they require. Quite frankly, he would much rather go for a walk with me, than just get let out in the backyard.
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GingerDog
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GingerDog

Female Join date : 2013-02-03
Location : Colorado

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyFri Nov 29, 2013 2:00 pm

I'm going to agree with the previous statements. My dogs get grumpy with each other when they haven't been exercised enough. My husky has put holes in my other dog (over food, usually) once, but they are normally fine.

Maybe just don't let them have toys, bones, food, etc without direct supervision- at least for a while. I'm not an expert, but I've seen several littermate pairs of huskies that do just fine. I think maybe you had some grumpy puppies with extra energy. I wouldn't jump to rehoming one yet, I bet it will get better.
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Rigbyjek
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Rigbyjek

Join date : 2012-12-18

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptyFri Nov 29, 2013 4:18 pm

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying he was set up to fail because he lived in an apartment. He was set up to fail because he was put into a situation where he was getting no exercise and they had no time for a dog- the result being, he chased the cats to entertain himself. I completely agree with you- A lot of dogs do really well in apartments, and actually most are better off! They get way more exercise than people who own homes- it makes me wonder why most shelters won't adopt out to people that don't have a fenced in yard Sibling rivalry between littermates 1625187496 A lot of huskies do really well with cats and other small animals, especially if they're getting enough exercise. Jen it sounds like Dizzy is a really lucky husky! I wish Rig's previous owners had been like you! Smile
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Bella_Jasper
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Bella_Jasper

Female Join date : 2013-02-08
Location : Bolingbrook, IL

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PostSubject: Re: Sibling rivalry between littermates   Sibling rivalry between littermates EmptySat Nov 30, 2013 5:15 pm

Your two sound similar to mine and I have noticed that with mine it usually stems from a stress situation in one way or another.  For example my first and last fight with them.  The first fight we had was over tennis balls just a few weeks after I had them, I had bought two tennis and like you I buy the same thing usually maybe alternating colors but same toy, we tried to toss a ball for each dog outside and Bella grabbed hers then lunged for Jasper's dropping hers to try latching onto his neck.  This was back in January or early February and they just got reintroduced to balls about two months ago and we have no problems with balls since then.  Every fight I have had has been physically started by Bella and she will not back off, I have had to physically pull her off every time and she usually ended up in her crate for a few days to a few hours after that and only allowed out when Jasper was put away.  Jasper simply defends himself and kicks her ass every time!  She is always injured after and the most he has gotten is a tiny scratch or a little bit of a bleeding gum.  This last time was the worst and he managed to tear her right cheek open in a T shape, puncture above her right eye and across her head between her eyes and she had multiple little partial puncture marks on her head and under her snout.  I live with my mother and since she witnessed the last fight insisted that my dogs a vicious and has demanded getting rid of one or both of them.  She feels I am making excuses for them not behaving but I can see what the problem is and am trying to prevent it and fix the issues that I find my dogs have.

In my opinion it is potentially dangerous having more then one of any animal in a household at once.  Not just Huskies or Husky litter mates.  We actually have three dogs in ours but my two are not aloud near my mothers for a few reasons but thats another whole topic in the world of messed up situations.  Anyways, I watch mine carefully and only leave them alone with a newer two if they are crated or they have had them a day or two when the newness has worn off a bit, or if they have gone and sniffed or taken each others toy with out any problem.  My big issue with the snarking and fighting I had at first was that I had a child around them alot and I didnt want an issue with him being injured, I had thought of rehoming Jasper at first because he wasn't as good with Fred but I stuck with it and got firmer if I had too and they are improving.  I just do not leave the room if Fred is here and they have a toy they are potentially going to be more possessive of.
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