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 PLAY BITING HELP *****

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mydogisshadow
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2012-07-23

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PostSubject: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 6:01 pm

Hello, I would appreciate any help and advice
We have had two dogs rescued before (never huskies) and my stepdad was a police dog trainer so he has lots of experience but thats was years ago and he is away for work a lot (currently he is away for three weeks).

About a month ago my family rescued a 17 month old male Husky named Shadow.
Information on his background was very bare, all they could tell us was that his previous owners had seperated. Since he has been home he has been very excitable. He loves to play and is more interested in his toys than food. When playing with him he will suddenly drop the toy, jump up and 'play-bite'. He will steal objects such as shoes and carry them around (not chew on them).
He knows the basic commands 'sit', 'down, 'stay', 'come', 'wait' (before letting him eat) and 'off' (when he gets on the sofa) but won't always do them. Although he prefers play he will do the commands for treats.
He also pulls a lot while on the lead and towards cars, cyclists etc
He tries to chase birds and squirrels and will bark and pull towards dogs and cats. He is friendly with dogs and we do allow him to socialise (only big dogs though, he growls at little ones).
Also, I have read that playing tug with him is bad?

I would love any training advice on how we should stop this behaviour. Currently we tapped him on the nose and said 'no' firmly, however, I have read that this isn't the correct training technique which is why I am posting this.

More worringly, we have a chair with a button on the side to lean it backwards and extend foot rests. Shadow was sitting by the side of the chair when my sister put her hand down to use the button. He suddenly lept up, growling and barking and bit her hand. This caused her hand to bleed from two tiny points. If you have an idea as to why he did this we would love to know as he hasn't been this aggressive before. He hasn't done it since but now she is scared of him! He would like to avoid having to take him back to the RSPCA or having him put down so we really need your help!

He also runs to get through the door before us which I have read is bad?

Oh, and we are looking into training classes but we are worried about the price.
Any help, advice and tips would be much appreciated.
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dbingham12
Teenager
Teenager
dbingham12

Female Join date : 2012-06-07
Location : Cheyenne, Wyoming

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 6:24 pm

This all sounds like pretty typical husky behavior. Especially the knowing comands but not always doing them. There are several threads here about biting and how to stop it with lots of great advice on that part and you should check those out.

As for the pulling on the lead and the chasing (commonly called prey drive), this is what huskys were born to do. Is he in a harness or a traditional collar? Saphire pulls really badly in a traditional collar but not with a harness. However I have heard others say the exact opposite of their husky's. They also make no-pull harnesses which might help.

Finally, the bitting of your sister. This sounds like he was startled. Even the best trained most good natured dogs will bite when startled, scared or hurt. This isn't really aggressive behavior as much as self protection behavior. It could stem from being abused or mistreated by a previous owner. So just be patient and look at the biting threads.

(Specifically look for the bite inhibition training link! Have seen it in several training threads on biting. Can't remember the specific link or who posted it but it was very helpful so maybe they will repost here for you.)
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mydogisshadow
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2012-07-23

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 6:39 pm

Thankyou for the response!
He is currently on a normal lead but we are looking into harnesses, there are just so many different ones! Do you know which is best, like the full body ones, the head ones etc?

I will try and find the posts about biting and thankyou for telling me why he bit my sister, it didn't seem like him at all so that makes sense!

I know I'm saying it a lot but thanks again, you've been a huge help x
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dbingham12
Teenager
Teenager
dbingham12

Female Join date : 2012-06-07
Location : Cheyenne, Wyoming

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 6:49 pm

For Saphire we just use a regular body harness (around her chest and body). I don't like the ones that go over their snout but that is just a personal preference. I would recommend a rolled harness for comfort but know you may have to try a couple different options to find what works best for your pup. Glad I could help and good luck!
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 6:52 pm

Hello and Welcome to the forum to both you and Shadow.

Quote :
He loves to play and is more interested in his toys than food.


Glad to hear he is playful.... This is also a very good observation. Learning what your pup's primary interest is goes a long way in more effectively fixing behaviour. It sounds like play time is Shadow's FAVOURITE thing and awarding him with it when he is good, or depriving him of it when he is bad can go a long way. Smile

Quote :
When playing with him he will suddenly drop the toy, jump up and 'play-bite'.

This isn't abnormal. Sometimes it can happen with a mouthy pup when they get overly excited. If Shadow really does enjoy playtime THAT much I would stop all play when he does it and maybe even issue a time out.

Attaching a keyword like "OUCH" when he does it and then stopping all play and giving a time out can also help a lot in learning what he did was very wrong.


Quote :
He will steal objects such as shoes and carry them around (not chew on them).

Are you chasing when he does this? Because it can be seen as a game if so. Clapping, Loud NO!, or maybe even redirection (to a different toy) can go a long way in helping curve this behaviour.

Quote :
He knows the basic commands 'sit', 'down, 'stay', 'come', 'wait' (before letting him eat) and 'off' (when he gets on the sofa) but won't always do them. Although he prefers play he will do the commands for treats.

Very Normal. Huskies tend to be stubborn or hard headed..... everything is more effective if there is a reward.

Quote :
Also, I have read that playing tug with him is bad?

Some people believe that it can lead to insubordination, or leads to them disrespecting to you.
To that I say "Every dog is different"
I play tug and wrestle with my dogs all the time.... They love it.

Quote :
Finally, the bitting of your sister. This sounds like he was startled. Even the best trained most good natured dogs will bite when startled, scared or hurt. This isn't really aggressive behavior as much as self protection behavior. It could stem from being abused or mistreated by a previous owner. So just be patient and look at the biting threads.

Agree with this 100%. Sounds like Shadow was surprised. Like you said you know little about his Past.... He could have been abused. Take it slow and see if it happens again and remember the triggers as best you can. Work on them slowly and gently.

Quote :
I would love any training advice on how we should stop this behaviour. Currently we tapped him on the nose and said 'no' firmly, however, I have read that this isn't the correct training technique which is why I am posting this

Pulling is a long battle.

I find forward motion to be huge for my two. If they start to pull I ask them to "heel".
If they don't they get a very small collar correction to let them know I want them back.... It's not a snap just a reminder.

If they continue I stop all forward motion and will sometimes even start to walk backwards until they are beside me.

It's a gentle and effective way to get them to understand how to heel and has worked WONDERS for my two.... but it was time consuming. It didn't happen over night. There are alot of good forum posts on here about pulling. Keep reading and find what works best for both of you and just keep at it.

Like everything else there is nothing enough time and patience can't fix.

Quote :
He also runs to get through the door before us which I have read is bad?
Debatable... Some people believe the pack leader MUST go first..... Respect is respect and has little to do with how a dog walks or in what order people use doors in my humble opnion.

Best of luck to you both~
~Chris~

_________________
Is this about the cake problem? What's the matter with you mathematicians, cake is never a problem. - Professor Lazlo
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mydogisshadow
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2012-07-23

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 7:07 pm

Thank you all for you're advice!
I will keep reading, get a harness and use these training tips from now on! They sound very suited for Shadow.
I will keep updating about his training and progress!

Thanks to all again!
Xxx
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mydogisshadow
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2012-07-23

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 7:27 pm

Oh and by the way I'm English which is why I might not call things the same as you, like I say lead instead of leash etc..
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Ghost
Adult
Adult
Ghost

Female Join date : 2011-09-20
Location : Vancouver, BC

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 8:22 pm

You've got some good advice in this thread, and like others have said these problems are not unusual for a teenage husky.

I'm sorry that your sister got bitten. Was Shadow asleep near the chair at the time? Perhaps he was startled?

There is some good advice from Ian Dunbar on teaching bite inhibition here. It's part of his puppy training manual and if you look at other sections of it, you'll find some good advice on dealing with assorted behaviour problems and training an adult dog.

I've heard people say that you shouldn't play tug because supposedly it interferes with your position as alpha. However that is totally outdated advice (even the use of the word alpha is outdated). Some researchers in England - at the University of Bristol I think - actually did a study to find out if playing tug was bad or not. It's not, and moreover it's fine for the dog to win - in fact a good idea since they enjoy it! Since you know that Shadow likes to play, like Chris says you can use this to help you train him. Play can sometimes be a reward for him. You might have noticed that when dogs do agility, at the end they are usually rewarded with a quick game of tug.

As for going to doors before you, it doesn't really matter. It's just a question of manners and how you want to teach him to behave. However if it's an outside door, then it's not a good idea to encourage him since I'm sure you've already heard that huskies like to run and explore. You don't want to give him the chance to bolt! It would be better to teach him to sit and wait.

I don't recommend bopping him on the nose. You don't want him to learn to fear your hand, and dogs do better with a training schedule based on positive reinforcement.

Good luck with all these issues. I'm sure you can fix them with some training.

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http://www.companionanimalpsychology.blogspot.com
Here4thePics
Comedic Relief


Male Join date : 2009-07-15

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyMon Jul 23, 2012 8:30 pm

mydogisshadow wrote:
Oh and by the way I'm English which is why I might not call things the same as you, like I say lead instead of leash etc..

Thats okay you were in good hands with Chris (Tika), he is from Canada, so they talk a bit funny like you Brits also.

Wink
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MyKeeonah
Teenager
Teenager
MyKeeonah

Male Join date : 2012-01-28
Location : OR

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 1:13 am

This is a direct copy/paste from another thread about pulling on the leash. Walking a husky is one of the most important things in their daily regimen, and a consistent heel, as well as general leash manners will make the process so much more enjoyable for everybody.

This is the method I used, with a regular collar.

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/nopulling.html



This is her heel now, 3 months after I started working on it with her using that method.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1A0gl6waew&context=C46b3929ADvjVQa1PpcFO47DcHV8EcjqAmQAxaq_Smc4M6G-7bxD0=

You can see her lead (tied to my belt) there, at the ready. She was only off leash because we were pretty much alone, and she had been doing well on leash, but the idea is the same. the positive reinforcement is that being at my heel yields her her doggie trail mix (kibble and a few treats mixed in), whereas pulling gets her nowhere. She sees being at my heel as a win win. You just start small, and work up to making him walk a great distance, and you don't even have a treat in your hand

I like to use this method because I personally disagree with prong collar and e-collars.


Last edited by MyKeeonah on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Erinc
Teenager
Teenager
Erinc

Join date : 2011-11-12

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 1:37 pm

Here4thePics wrote:
mydogisshadow wrote:
Oh and by the way I'm English which is why I might not call things the same as you, like I say lead instead of leash etc..

Thats okay you were in good hands with Chris (Tika), he is from Canada, so they talk a bit funny like you Brits also.

Wink

Hey! We don't talk funny! Smile

Where a bouts in the UK are you? If you are anywhere near London we have meets, fairly regularly which you are more than welcome to attend!
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dbingham12
Teenager
Teenager
dbingham12

Female Join date : 2012-06-07
Location : Cheyenne, Wyoming

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PostSubject: Re: PLAY BITING HELP *****   PLAY BITING HELP ***** EmptyTue Jul 24, 2012 6:12 pm

Sean thats a great link! Thanks. Saphire is still learning heel and this will help.
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