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 Kennel Training Backfiring?

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Chelsii
Puppy
Puppy
Chelsii

Female Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Winter Park, FL

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySat Apr 06, 2013 11:58 am

Hi everyone!

So, since we've had (and before we had) Kouda I've read all of the awesome topics here on training, feeding, etc. We have been kennel / crate training Kouda, but I am beginning to worry that it may be backfiring. Here is what happened and here are my current concerns:

The night he came home he was petrified, as to be expected. He had just endured a 6 - 8 hour plane ride in a crate (with a layover in Atlanta) and had no idea who we were! Originally we put the kennel in the living room and closed the door to our bedroom however; later decided to move the kennel to our bedroom. The mistake we made that night is we gave him attention (moving the crate) when he whined. After an hour and a half of constant howling / screaming, we also gave him attention by yelling at him to go to sleep. He did go to sleep.

The next day he again stayed in his crate in our room. At 7:30 AM we also let him sleep with us in the bed after taking him out because we assumed he wouldn't potty until we had to get up around 9 AM anyway. (Mistake #3)

For the past 3 days, he has been staying in his crate in the living room. Night #1, he cried almost the entire night. Fiance and I got about 2 hours of sleep and again in frustration, yelled at him to sleep. Night #2 was better--we ignored him the whole night since we know we shouldn't even be yelling. After about an hour and a half again, he again went to sleep. Unfortunately he cries for about 30 minutes after every time we take him potty and re crate him during the night (so about 3 times).

Last night was his best night! He slept ALL NIGHT (I was so surprised) and didn't tell me he needed to go potty once. (We went out at 12:30 AM and he slept until 7:30 AM!) When I re-crated him in the morning, he whined for about 5 minutes, than went back to sleep. He did, however; throw a temper tantrum at 8:45 when the Fiance left for work and didn't pay attention to him.

Last night appears better to me but what I am concerned about is his feelings towards the crate and how he his acting when he gets out. After he whines / cries / throws a temper tantrum and he is than quiet enough that I feel as if I can let him out, he bolts into my arms and cries and whines excessively and as strongly as if he was still in the crate. Throughout the day if he is out and I am cooking / working while he runs around, he'll whine and cry and throw a temper tantrum if I do not pay attention to him. He used to bark once to try to get my attention, but now it has blown into full blown crying / whining.

When he does that, I do not give him attention. I continue doing what I am doing. Also, there are times he starts crying when I approach the crate to let him out. When he does I turn my back and sit down. If he quiets, I let him out--if he gets noisier, I walk into another room and shut the door. (And than the temper tantrum usually gets worse.)

Throughout the day he stays in the kennel usually for 1 hour naps, and than he's let out to go potty and run around for an hour. There are some times when he falls asleep and sleeps for like 2 hours and I let him stay in there. Is that too long? Should I wake him up?

I know he needs to learn more patience (just like his daddy and I) but I'm afraid I'm just making him jaded and angry rather than showing him that whining and throwing a temper tantrum doesn't work. I haven't raised a puppy by myself before so I don't really know what to look for or how they feel or will act.

I know he is super smart! He learned to "sit" in one day. That's the other reason I am so concerned that he's just getting angrier and angrier. If he is, will he ever just cool off?

I did leave his antelope antler (which he LOVES) as his kennel only toy, and I did get him to eat his breakfast in the kennel today (and he did go in willingly to eat it). While he ate it I stroked him and talked to him softly to try to get rid of some of that negative "Mommy is going to leave me when I'm in the crate" feel.

If anyone has any input on this that would be great!

-----

Edit: I meant to link this: https://youtu.be/Yfvs98J---8 I videoed one of his temper tantrums. He even tries to dig his way out of the crate.

Currently he is throwing a temper tantrum behind me as I post this. He can see that I am here and ignoring him. He just went outside 45 minutes ago and I just put him in like 15 minutes ago. He slept or calmed down for like 10 minutes and now he's throwing a tantrum.

I really have no idea what to do about this. He is SO LOUD. I work from home and working is impossible. Should I move him to a secluded room by himself when I know he's just doing it for attention?

For the first 3 days he NEVER did this in the crate. I don't know why is now all of a sudden.

----

Edit 2:

I just saw the ThunderShirt someone posted on another topic. If this goes on for a certain amount of time should we invest in one? I can't tell now if it's because he's sad or anger (although I think it's all out of anger for ignoring him).
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jalepeno
Senior
Senior
jalepeno

Male Join date : 2010-12-22
Location : Portland, OR

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySat Apr 06, 2013 1:13 pm

Have you tried covering the crate with a blanket when it's time for him to sleep?

This is going to be a difficult time for you and Kouda. You both are going to have to endure to get to the wonderful place where the crate is his safe "cave". I know exactly what's going on. I tried to crate train husky number two and couldn't endure. He won. My boy now is a rehome who was crate trained when I got him. It is wonderful if you can just hang on! Maybe earplugs?
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Chelsii
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Chelsii

Female Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Winter Park, FL

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySat Apr 06, 2013 1:16 pm

Thanks for the reply / thoughts, Michael!

We've had puppies before but nothing like a husky puppy, that's for sure. 3 days max and they got the "no crying" thing, and it was NOTHING like husky crying.

We did try that last night for the first time... I wonder if that had something to do with why he slept so well last night? I still have the blanket on today even when he's not sleeping... perhaps I should take it off?

I did give him more exercise this past 30 minutes too. One thing we did do was exercise him a lot more the days when he wasn't crying / acting up as much.
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jennmreeves
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jennmreeves

Female Join date : 2013-04-01
Location : Springfield MO

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 7:44 am

I think that he is just so full of energy and unfortunatly we as humans can not keep up with them. When my husband and I got our first dog that is a blue heeler/ great pyrenees mix it seemed like no matter how much we both tried to play with him and wear him out it never worked. He still craved as much attention as possible. We started to think that we made the wrong choice in getting a dog. But then we both were talking about it and started thinking that maybe he just needed a playmate. When they are born they have litter mates, that is when the lightbulb went off and we brought home my little bundle of joy. We got my siberian husky that I named Meeka. Everything has balanced out now. I know that may not be an option for you but I am just letting you know what worked for us. I love you
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Super Nova
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Super Nova

Male Join date : 2013-01-18
Location : Northern Virginia

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 9:41 am

You have to keep in mind that huskies are pack animals. They love to be amongst the pack playing and being close. He just lost his mom and siblings - he is alone so to say. You two have now just replaced them.
It is okay - I know it's hard to hear a puppy cry but trust me from my own experience, dealing with crate training with a 9 week old is a lot easier than with a 5 month old. (I gave in when create training and this the first week ours don't freak out.)

What are you putting in the crate with him? I would put a few toys in there, possibly a old wore shirt with your scent on it.

Instead of yelling at him (giving your voice as attention) I would suggest making an noise to startle him. So he knows "Oh if I whine the bad noise will come - I better he quiet" It sounds silly but it works.

Are you rewarding him when he goes into the crate? Remember this crate needs to be the best place on earth! Smile Try to find that treat that he will do anything for. Chicken Jerky was our savor - I swear he will do anything just for a nibble.

Also - just a suggestion: when training have a command "Go to Bed" or "Go to crate" in a nice voice. You may have to lead him in there a few times. Make sure to have him down in there too, before giving him a reward. This will help reinforce "hey this place is good".

Hope this helps & Good luck.
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Chelsii
Puppy
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Chelsii

Female Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Winter Park, FL

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 12:08 pm

Thank you both for the advice!

Unfortunately we certainly can't get another dog. I do understand that he is a pack animal and once he is kennel trained and potty trained he is more than welcome to sleep with us, however; we want to teach him now that such behavior will not be tolerated.

He's been howling, yelling, biting and trying to dig his way out of his crate for the past 4 hours now. His bladder is empty because he hasn't had any water. I need to feed him and take him out again but my Fiance and I now refuse to give him any attention or anything until he quiets. Unfortunately, he hasn't. We know if we take him out now he'll think it was the howling and next time he'll howl for 5 hours. We're so lost.

We've started talking about shock collars and the collars that makes that annoying noise to dogs when they bark. (Almost like you were talking about, Nova.) I don't like the idea of punishing him but he hasn't been understanding the positive reinforcement. Patience and treats aren't working.

I spent the better half of the last 2 days ignoring all of my work and trying to train him all day. We've been feeding him in the crate, and all of his toys are in the crate (nylon bone that smells like chicken, antelope antler, and a kong). I tried to teach him "Go to Bed" and would guide him to the crate, and we fed him and gave him treats every time he went in. The barking and temper tantrums have only gotten worse.

He wakes me up at 7:30 and I take him potty. Fiance works at 9 and I work at 10 so we want at least another hour before we get up. He doesn't, though. He'll sit and cry until we let him out (as we're seeing now). He also wakes me up throughout the night to go potty (and he'll whine a bit when he goes back in but than go to sleep). I've been getting so little sleep its making my own sensitive stomach act up so I have been sick the past couple of days. We can't do this anymore and we have no more patience.

I really have no idea what to do.

He's now been at it for 4 hours since I'm writing this. He'll be quiet for 5 seconds and expect us to let him out when he's quiet for 5 seconds because, as per what we were told, that's what we did before. He just doesn't get it.

Please help.
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Chelsii
Puppy
Puppy
Chelsii

Female Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Winter Park, FL

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 1:08 pm

We just went to the Petsmart and they didn't want us to buy one of the eggs that makes a noise when the dog barks. They insisted we get a thundershirt. I'm sure the shirt might work but I want him to be trained, not band-aided.

He's still yelling.

I can't even let him out to go potty because than he'll think it was the yelling.

He won't even shut up for 5 seconds.

We really don't know how to deal with this anymore.
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JillC
Teenager
Teenager
JillC

Female Join date : 2011-05-03
Location : Buffalo, NY

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 1:50 pm

Hi Chelsi! Hang in there girl it does get easier, I promise! I can hear your frustration and I remember those early days with my Evie were hell too. She loves her crate now, but when we first started out she screamed like it was nobody's business and pooped all over herself every time she was in there. Consistency is key! I would recommend finding one spot and keeping the crate in that spot, preferably in your room with you. I don't remember exactly how old Kouda is, but he's just a baby right? He' s going to want to be close to you, he's young and scared and trying to figure out this crazy world almost like a human baby is. You have to start out with very small increments of time in the crate and gradually work your way up. I'm talking minutes in the beginning, not hours. And treating and praising like crazy when he is quiet. As for nighttime, I started with Evie's crate right next to my side of the bed. Every night at bedtime, I would say "c'mon Evie, it's bedtime," lure her to the crate with a treat, and shut the door. I went to bed too. She went crazy- crying, jumping, biting the bars and I would let her go for a few minutes, then I stuck just my fingers thru the bars of the crate and left them there. She'd cry, lick, cry, lick, and eventually she did settle and go to sleep. I never said a single word, just put my hand in. The carrying on became less and less every night and in no time we moved the crate away from the bed to the other side of the room. For pottying during the night, I would set my alarm for every 2 1/2 hours when she was real little- carry her out to pee and right back in the crate she went when she was done. Back in went my earplugs. It's hard in the beginning, but consistency and tough love is key. As far as wanting to sleep longer in the morning, don't we all! Evie gets up every morning at 6am, therefore so do I. Like you said, they are soooo smart- he will get it eventually. The behavior he is displaying is normal puppy behavior and I wouldn't go the shock collar route. Punishment is not the answer in my opinion. Patience is.


Last edited by JillC on Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JillC
Teenager
Teenager
JillC

Female Join date : 2011-05-03
Location : Buffalo, NY

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 1:58 pm

@Chelsii wrote:
I can't even let him out to go potty because than he'll think it was the yelling.

He won't even shut up for 5 seconds.

We really don't know how to deal with this anymore.

I would start over. I think you might be expecting too much of him this early. Begin by throwing a treat or toy in the crate and praising like crazy when he just walks inside to go get it. Work your way up to closing the door, etc. You don't want him to think of the crate as a bad place, but a safe one.
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Chelsii
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Chelsii

Female Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Winter Park, FL

Kennel Training Backfiring? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 07, 2013 4:12 pm

Thank you for the reply and help Jill!

Thankfully he has never pottied in his crate. He's sleeping in there now, in fact, with all of his toys.

He is almost 9 weeks, yes. He is SO SMART, he learned how to sit on command in one day. I've never had a dog that does that. That is why his temper tantrums make me so mad. He knows we don't like them, so that's why he does them.

We did have the kennel in our room, but than we put it out in the living room since that is where I am all day when I am working. Should I move it back to the bedroom? He could see the living room from the bedroom--I'm not sure if he could see me, though.

During the day this isn't really a big deal. He takes an hour nap and I usually wake him up and take him out than play for an hour, than he's ready for another nap. Even at night he goes right to sleep. It's only an issue in the morning. :/

We did buy a thundershirt, he HATED having it on. We put treats on it before putting it on him, but he ran around the house, cried, and tried to shake it off / rub it off on the wall. I hope he'll get used to it in the next day or two.
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NicciFett
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NicciFett

Female Join date : 2013-04-06

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptyThu Apr 11, 2013 11:46 am

Hey Chelsii, I am not sure how your crate training is going but as far as mine went, i put my stinky t shirts in the crate ... i feed her only in her crate daily with the door shut .. she loves frozen banana slices so that is her crate only snack ... i have the entire thing covered in a dark blanket so it looks like a little cave....and she plays in there ...naps in there ...but if i shut it on her and she wakes .she will scream ...panic ....poop.....so i honestly threw in the towel .she is a good dog ..a smart dog... HOUSE BROKEN IN THREE DAYS! she has a poop spot in the yard and a pee spot ...same thing as yours learned to sit in five minutes at only seven weeks ..... and who can say any of these things about a human baby lol so we keep her in the kitchen ... all her toys ... crate ... a blankie she likes on the floor and we wander the house and go about our business ....if she makes a fuss we ignore it ... if she takes a tantrum we correct it .... i think they have far too much fur to successfully keep a thundershirt on them ...i would be scared of her over heating .... but honestly i am not going to torture mine with the crate anymore .... i am just going to keep working on claiming my items ...working on her teething and keep her active and tired Smile i hope you are having good luck with your little pup!!! but as long as someone is around with your little guy he might actually be okay without a crate! ... i used to have an akita i got from a small pup . he hated the crate but he was just a good dog .. only time he had an accident on the floor was when he had a stomach ache and he relieved himself right next to the door lol..... in fact only one out of 17 of my dogs were ever crate trained .....i had rottweilers, dobermans, a german shepherd ....pitbull terriers ... most of the big dogs .. you name it i probably had one! and the only one that needed to be in a crate was the jack russell terrier mix! who refused to ever be house broken lol
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Mschwax
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Mschwax

Female Join date : 2013-03-07
Location : Iowa

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptyFri Apr 12, 2013 1:17 am

Gonna throw out an idea....it has been my experience that our huskies have always HATED being in a kennel, of any sort. Yet they would quite happily be tied up. Something in their brain says wire panels = jail. Obviously, tying can be a safety issue if you aren't there...but when you are home to supervise, why don't you try tethering him near his crate, leaving the door open, but where he can't go more than a foot or so away from it. You may find that he calms down a bit and will start to retreat to his "den" when he doesn't see it as jail. We did this with Vixen cuz wow can that girl outscream any dog or child alive..... obviously they are all different, but only one of the huskies we have had in the last 20 years didn't mind a kennel.

I also suggest a bottle of wine. For you, not the dog.
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NicciFett
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NicciFett

Female Join date : 2013-04-06

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySat Apr 13, 2013 6:29 pm

Mschwax, that is genius! especially the wine part
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kelly foster ford
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kelly foster ford

Female Join date : 2013-03-25
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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySat Apr 13, 2013 8:16 pm

Have you tried letting him sleep out side of the crate at night? I spent the first 3 weeks on the couch with all our huskies because my husband and I both work during the day and didnt want her to spend 12 hours out of 24 in the crate. this has worked extremely well for us they will let you know if they need to go to the bathroom and usually go right back to sleep (and they will need to go out the first couple weeks they are babies)the crate was left open.they will learn that everybody else in the pack sleeps at night. good luck hopefully all will work out for you
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cinnamonbits
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cinnamonbits

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Location : San Antonio, TX

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySat Apr 13, 2013 11:05 pm

What kind of kennel are you using? I got one of the vari kennels and I never had very many issues with Karli and the crate. The first night was bad because the crate was in the laundry room. When we moved it into the kitchen the next night, she could still hear us and the tv so she didn't cry. We also cover her kennel with a blanket but we only cover the front at night when she goes to bed. Hiding treats in the kennel for her became a fun way for her to go in there by herself. Every time I placed her in the kennel I said "Go to bed Karli" and now when we say go to bed, she does (well most of the time, she is a husky after all lol.) Just make sure to be consistent. Karli now sleeps til we get her up (covering the kennel helps with that.) Kennel training wont happen overnight and I do think you're going to need to start over.
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ramoscl
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ramoscl

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 3:22 am

I just want to add there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Dakota used to get me up every morning at daybreak. He had to go out two times at night.
Now he goes out between 10 and 11pm then sleeps in his kennel until about 9 am. I can tell him it's time for bed and he trots right in. If he's being quiet and i miss bedtime he walk in on his own and grumbles at me to close the door to his kennel room.

At 11 months old we no longer have to lock him in the kennel at night. We do during the day if we have to go somewhere just in case he gets bored and decides to, oh i don't know, eat the wall or the Washing machine lol.

I know misbehavior seems worse when you know they are smart enough to know better but that is also paired with a bit of a manipulative streak lol. Dakota know's he will not get "people food" yet he will still food strike all day in the hopes we will give him table scraps. Then about 30 min before bed he'll grudgingly eat his kibble, all the while acting injured and unloved.

It's a long road but you can do it! It take loads of patience ( please note if you're religious asking god for patience only makes him give you more opportunities to practice it I don't recommend it lol) and perseverance.

I have 2 kids at home and i find if i treat Dakota the same way i do my kids, firm but fair, i get the best results.

Good luck and please feel free to vent away Smile
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dbingham12
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dbingham12

Female Join date : 2012-06-07
Location : Cheyenne, Wyoming

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 1:41 pm

I'm going to second the wine suggestion. As you are already aware, husky's are extremely smart. They also are very intuitive and can read your every emotion. So you think you are ignoring your pup completely, however, your pup can sense you growing frustration. Hence the trying harder to get your attention.

So take a couple of deep breaths and grab a glass. If crate training is a big deal to you it will be to you pup too. I struggled the first two days and my mother pointed out that I was making a huge deal out of it. I took the stance that this was how it was going to be and I wasn't going to make a big deal of it. Saphire cried for a few more days in the kennel but now we have no problems.

Keep your head up and stick to your guns. You can do this.
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NicciFett
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NicciFett

Female Join date : 2013-04-06

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PostSubject: Re: Kennel Training Backfiring?   Kennel Training Backfiring? EmptySun Apr 14, 2013 5:06 pm

wow so we crate trained Sif by absolute accident .... our tv room is right next to our kitchen ..we placed her crate in the doorway to block her from entering our tv room ... last night for a few hours we played video games and she laid in her crate just to be as close as possible to us ... now we can lock her in and she is fine! its fantastic!!! if you have any set up like this i fully recommend it lol
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