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tunez33
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PostSubject: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:01 am

So long story short. I replaced part of my old fence friday, replaced about 65 feet that was in very poor condition. Pretty much starting that day Skye started being very fearful in the house. Friday night and Saturday she was very anxious completely not like herself when she is in the house. Outside she is fine, going for a walk she is fine. The main issue is coming at bed time. She won't sit still she just keeps pacing, digging at the carpet, panting. When i try to comfort her by petting her she has snapped a few times at me as a warning. I should note that at bed time, she is in my room with the door locked, is not given free roam of the house, because i don't want her going up and down the stairs all night.

On sunday and monday morning she was back to her normal self. Mid day Monday i fixed the bottom step she ruined with her digging while anxious, nothing major just a little wood filler and a small amount of staining. Now with the staining, there is very little smell. I did it fully ventilated with her outside, used baking soda and vinegar, as well as heat to fight the smell. But later on that night around 7pm, she started acting up again. Same thing, outside she is normal, going for walk normal. In the house she is frightened and anxious. She is scared to go in the kitchen at times near her food and water, she will only eat after a walk. She is panting heavy, digging on the carpet, and pacing at night. She snaps as a warning when petting her at night. It almost seems like confinement anxiety, but she has never been like this before since i adopted her.

Could this all be do to the fence and fixing of the stairs? and it is just taking time for her to adjust? Or is this just a coincidence and she may be sick? I am trying to figure out whether to get her to the vet tomorrow or give her a few days to adjust.
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:09 am

I would probably take her to the vet to rule out an injury or something. But I have to wonder.....another member Jimmy, Artic_Wind had a similar issue with his boy Kohdi, last summer. He didn't want to sleep inside the house, and wanted to stay out. Acted weird inside, and come to find out, if I remember right there was a snake near the house, so we all assumed he was watching it to not go inside the house, and protecting Mishka the other husky and Jimmy. So maybe there is a creepy crawly somewhere around or inside the house??????? Let us know what you find out.

Oh and btw, he was only like that at night, bed time. Otherwise perfectly normal.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:44 am

You are correct, Renee, there was a rattlesnake outside and I had to wonder if that was the cause because once the snake was gone (home owners gardener killed it) Kohdi never wanted to stay outside again.

To the OP, what does Skye do once she is let out? Just lay down or does she wander around? With Kohdi, he wasn't upset enough to start digging on the floors or anything like that, he knows he has me wrapped around his finger (well, paw) so I'd just go to bed, Kohdi would jump up and just hover above me (drove me crazy!) if I tried to ignore him, he'd keep sticking his nose in my face, so I'd pull the comforter over my head and that's when he'd start undigging me. I'd let him out and he'd just lay out there and go to sleep. It was summer so there were even a few times I got myself out a blanket and pillows, pulled to chairs together and made myself a "bed" just so I could make sure he wasn't up to something (plus I was worried about him) and nope, he just slept!

Dogs are extremely smart and sense things we can't, something inside your house seems to be bothering Skye, I honestly don't think it's odors from wood stain or whatever, although I also can't really give you any clues as to what it might be either, unfortunately. Whatever it might be could possibly be outside too (like with Kohdi and my suspicions it was the rattlesnake)

Also, is Skye an "outside" dog during the day and comes in pretty much only when it's time to sleep? Kohdi is not, he's pretty much inside all day (but has access to the backyard whenever he wants it) but night time he has to stay in, too many possible dangers out there for him without supervision.
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tunez33
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:57 am

@Artic_Wind wrote:
You are correct, Renee, there was a rattlesnake outside and I had to wonder if that was the cause because once the snake was gone (home owners gardener killed it) Kohdi never wanted to stay outside again.

To the OP, what does Skye do once she is let out? Just lay down or does she wander around? With Kohdi, he wasn't upset enough to start digging on the floors or anything like that, he knows he has me wrapped around his finger (well, paw) so I'd just go to bed, Kohdi would jump up and just hover above me (drove me crazy!) if I tried to ignore him, he'd keep sticking his nose in my face, so I'd pull the comforter over my head and that's when he'd start undigging me. I'd let him out and he'd just lay out there and go to sleep. It was summer so there were even a few times I got myself out a blanket and pillows, pulled to chairs together and made myself a "bed" just so I could make sure he wasn't up to something (plus I was worried about him) and nope, he just slept!

Dogs are extremely smart and sense things we can't, something inside your house seems to be bothering Skye, I honestly don't think it's odors from wood stain or whatever, although I also can't really give you any clues as to what it might be either, unfortunately. Whatever it might be could possibly be outside too (like with Kohdi and my suspicions it was the rattlesnake)

Also, is Skye an "outside" dog during the day and comes in pretty much only when it's time to sleep? Kohdi is not, he's pretty much inside all day (but has access to the backyard whenever he wants it) but night time he has to stay in, too many possible dangers out there for him without supervision.


Skye isn't a "outside" dog, spends most of the time in the house. When she's outside she was laying down relaxing and enjoying herself, wanting to play. At night while she is highly anxious she is just wandering around the yard circling and refusing to go in, but that's only been the days when she's having these anxiety issues. The only changes made to the house since it started was the new fence and fixing of the stairs, I did have a plumber come on Monday as well to replace a valve. He was in and out,had skye outside for the 35 minutes he was there, so no interaction there.

Her panting right now is so heavy she's shaking, she seems literally terrified. She stops the panting when outside, but inside she has tail tucked, and very skittish, running at every chance she gets. If she's let out of the room, she runs straight to the door to wait to go outside.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:02 am

@tunez33 wrote:


At night while she is highly anxious she is just wandering around the yard circling and refusing to go in, but that's only been the days when she's having these anxiety issues


Her panting right now is so heavy she's shaking, she seems literally terrified. She stops the panting when outside, but inside she has tail tucked, and very skittish, running at every chance she gets. If she's let out of the room, she runs straight to the door to wait to go outside.

How old is Skye? I'm wondering if the changes to the fence are only coinsidence. This sounds somewhat like sundowning. Or possible, she may be developing vision problems that are only manifest at night? I would take her to the vet pronto.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:08 am

Amy, what is sun downing?

I agree with Amy, I think the fence may be coincidence. If I had to choose between the 3 things you mentioned, I'd probably have chosen the plumber being in your house.

Skye sounds a bit more intense than what Kohdi was doing (he was RELENTLESS though in his insistence on being outside) I never thought of it possibly being a vision issue with Skye, sounds like a possibility, although I'd think she would be just as upset outside than in (?) ugh, this one is tough, you really don't want Skye to get so upset though, a vet visit is probably wise. I hope they just don't give her sedatives to get thru the nights though, a cause really must be found.
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aljones
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:22 am

Amy, Skye is a rescue and about 6 years old (from her first message)

Sasha has decided that she wants to stay out at night as well, but if the coyotes are active around the house i bring her in and she's fine ... so it's not the time of year or phase of the moon.

@artic_wind Sundowning is also knows as Cognitive Dysfunction Syndrome (yeh, I was looking while you were typing) and at 6 years shouldn't be the problem.

My question of the OP is - Are these symptoms consistent, is it all the time that she's in the house or only at certain times?  I also agree with the suggestion that you take her to the vet to make sure that there isn't some physical problem.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:45 am

My experience leans me toward vision issues. (Or mice in the walls that she can hear and you can't) When I first got Keno he was very fearful at night. After having him on a good food for a few months we noticed a physical difference in the clarity of his eyes and he stopped being so iffy at nightfall. He would 'check' floors (had dark flooring) before he would enter a room by tapping it with his paw to make sure there was a floor and even then he would creep around on it. sometimes he would get "stuck" on his bed in the living room because he was too scared to walk back to the bedroom where we were so he would end up sitting out in the living room doing circles in his bed.

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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:01 am

@TwisterII <LOL> I'm now wondering if this house sets on a foundation slap or over a basement. Following in line with your 'mouse in the walls' comment, if there were something (and I'm thinking Raccoon or other nocturnal animal) she didn't like / was afraid of in the basement she might be displaying the same symptoms.
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amymeme
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:16 am

@Artic_Wind wrote:
Amy, what is sun downing?



Sundowning is a phenomenon in both humans and dogs that are older where, in the evening,they become disoriented, agitated, possibly aggressive.  During the day they are fine. Occasionally it can be a stand alone phenomena with no significance.  Frequently, it is accompanied by dementia.
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Artic_Wind
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:30 pm

Thank you for the sun downing definition! Smile I'm always learning something new here Smile

Ok, so I'm wondering, if it's a vision issue, or even a sun downing issue, why is being outside "helping" her? In my own mind, both things would still be present at night whether its inside or outside, no?
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tunez33
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:46 pm

haha wow guys thanks for all the responses, going to answer a few questions i read here.

Skye is 6 years old, I have her on orijen adult food. Planning on switching to raw in the next month or so. Regarding the house, the basement is pretty much sealed off, it would be difficult for something to really get down in there. I live in a suburb area, off of a city. At night she will be pacing around outside as well, but is in a calmer state, panting isn't as heavy. Last night she just wouldn't settle down, i let her downstairs and she seemed to calm down after about 5 minutes of pacing and went to sleep on her dog bed.

It's not really consistent. It started the day of the fence and she was definitely spooked inside of the house during the day. Tail between the legs, walking very slowly and carefully in the kitchen before darting off and jumping onto the couch not wanting to move. It went away about 2 days later and then manifested again on monday when we fixed and stained the step and had the plumber come. She's being skittish in the day time as well, the kitchen seems to be the biggest cause of her fear as she is walking slowly on her guard in there. Any object i pick up regardless what it is is scaring her. She is being fearful and skittish in the day, it seems to be amplified during the night.

I am going to take her to the vet Friday. Skye is horrible at the vet, she is very vet aggressive. So i am going to record what she is doing on my phone over the next two days, so when we go there i can show the vet what is going on so they know what to look for. Maybe they can notice something in her demeanor or posture, something i am not noticing.

I took a few videos of it her last night to show. Uploading them to youtube now and will post later. I will also record how she is being during the day time as well.

My girlfriend is joking Skye is having separation anxiety from her. Skye was acting like this the day of the fence going up and after until my girlfriend came over. Skye was normal and slept fine the 2 days over the weekend she was there, she left Monday and shortly after is when all this started again.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:52 pm

Separation anxiety isn't completely out of the question. Maybe a compound of things. Having a member of her family "missing" coinciding with loud noises of fencing and strange person showing up on a day. When I moved off to college my dad's dog looked for me for 2 weeks until I came home for the weekend. She did this for nearly two months until she got used to the new routine that I wasn't "gone", just away. They said she would check all over the house and lay in front of the door to my empty bedroom.

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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:03 pm

I would definitely have her eyes checked. I don't imagine the sundown issue, since she is only 6, but an eye issue may be the issue. Cataracts are an issue in huskies, since she is a rescue you do not know 100% of how well bred she is. From reading others issue with their dogs and cataracts, they bumped into things and the like, have you noticed her walking into things?

The separation thing is also a possibility, but I have to question, if there is something in the kitchen that is bothering her. The mice thing is a possibility, or the plumber may have had a smell about him or had maybe a bug issue there. Something is definitely troubling her and it does seem kitchen related. Has your girlfriend always visit or is this the first time Skye has met her?
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:25 pm

@MiyasMomma wrote:
I would definitely have her eyes checked. I don't imagine the sundown issue, since she is only 6, but an eye issue may be the issue. Cataracts are an issue in huskies, since she is a rescue you do not know 100% of how well bred she is. From reading others issue with their dogs and cataracts, they bumped into things and the like, have you noticed her walking into things?

The separation thing is also a possibility, but I have to question, if there is something in the kitchen that is bothering her. The mice thing is a possibility, or the plumber may have had a smell about him or had maybe a bug issue there. Something is definitely troubling her and it does seem kitchen related. Has your girlfriend always visit or is this the first time Skye has met her?

I haven't noticed her bump into anything at all. I'll definitely see if i can get her vision checked at the vet. I'll google up some at home tests to see how she does with those. She seems to track tennis balls well we've been playing fetch everyday, trying to tire her out before bed but hasn't been working. She's been able to play fetch at night, with a little light from the back of the house.

Girlfriend visits pretty much every weekend, she didn't see skye for about 2 weeks straight just because difference of schedules. She's coming over today, so I'll look for differences today.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:27 pm

here are those videos, took these last night. First video is of her downstairs after endless pacing upstairs, the rest are videos from my room.

heavy panting/shaking


skye pacing


bedroom digging
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:39 pm

The first video is the only one I could see anything on.....I will add to my personal experience, with sundown my cat had it, and she was a vocal cat, but she was deafening at night, from what I know a vocal dog would be more vocal, Skye doesn't appear to be. However, a couple of months ago my husky Miya did similar as Skye, panting heavy, pacing, excessive drooling, not comfortable, and I panicked thinking she was full on bloat, she had to poop bad, hahahahaha, funny but not her norm at all. She never had to potty at 2 am, and if she does, she never is that way. If this is a new thing, less than a week or two, I am wondering if she is having some type of tummy issue. I would take her to the vet, if you can get better videos do so, but the first one is good to show vet. What type of flea/heartworm or any other meds she is on? Did you recently give her any meds for flea/tick/heartworm that corresponds with this reaction?
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tunez33
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:47 pm

Sentinel for heart worm, for fleas and etc I use vectra 3D. I've been giving her consequin for about 2 months now as a glucosamine supplement as she's aging. The only thing new I've given her is salmon oil. About 2 weeks ago I started adding it as a omega 3 supplement to her diet. Her bowl movements have seem to be regular. ill try working on getting some better videos today when I'm home for the vet. Also thanks everyone for the help
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MiyasMomma
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:56 pm

I am not sure on reactions for dogs, as in allergic, I might for the time being stop the salmon oil, since that is the only thing new you have added and corresponds to the time frame. Just my observation, it may have nothing to do with it. But as far as allergies, most recommend elimination, so I would eliminate the oil, for the time being and mention that to your vet as well.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:10 pm

Okay, I've just gone back through your older messages and it looks as if Skye is skittish around things that aren't the norm, as well as being a bit unsociable.  

You've listed several things that are out of the norm (new fence, missed play date(?), plumber); enough that might bring on anxiety in an already anxious dog.  

Since it's continuing, my money is still on a varmint that was chased out of the fence area when the fence was redone.  With her being skittish already, a mouse in the walls might just be enough to raise her anxiety level. My thoughts are that this is something external, not physical with her.

Among other things on your vet visit, I'd ask about something to help her relax (and OTC Benedryl with no additives is good for that) until she can settle.

And since she posted as I was writing, if the fish oil is the only change to diet then I agree with @miyasmomma to drop it for the time being. Did you ever make the change to raw that you mentioned once? If so, when??
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tunez33
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:33 pm

No raw change yet, it will start around the 18th or 19th of May. I'm in the process of ordering 4 months worth of food, then I'm gonna divide it into daily meals every day for 4 months and freeze it. Food will be arriving around the 8th or so.

ill grab some mouse traps and see if I can get something
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:19 pm

I've watched the videos - as best I can and what strikes me is how much this behavior is similar to Ami's. In specific instances: When neighbors are hunting or target shooting (gunshot), thunderstorms and high winds. When any of those events happen, he wants to get away...with thunder or high winds howling, it can seem as if it is everywhere. With gunshot, he comes running to the house, rings his doorbell and heads either to our bed or his "throne" in the sunroom. BUt, with AMi, there is a specific, identifiable stimulus.

The one time there was an animal (a cow in the backyard 3 nights running) he was also pacing....but there was an air of excitement, "come on Mom...lets go play!!!" not anxiety like your videos show. Both Archer and Ami get curious and excited, not anxious, when there are critters...either in the wall or outside so I'm less inclined to believe that is the stimulus.

Just for an experiment, if you have a crate, try setting it up, putting a sheet or quilt over everything but the door and leave the door open. I'd be really curious if she will settle down in a cave like place.

With Ami, the high wind thing is new...and our fault. He was out on his line while we went grocery shopping. I had checked the forecast and the radar before leaving (I won't leave him out there in a storm even if he does have a dog house for shelter (which he loves). Well, we still got a storm with very high winds. When I got home I found a small branch (diameter maybe an inch but about 8 ft long) tangled in his tether. I can only surmise that it fell from one of the pine trees - Ami does NOT like things that fall suddenly (we can keep him out of a room just by putting a large sheet of cardboard up against the doorway Rolling Eyes )

So - any changes noise wise? Weather wise? stormy?

I would still take her to the vet - even though she is only 6, there still could be something neurological, she could be developing cataracts or some of the other eye diseases...she could have developed side effects to some medication...she does seem to have some general anxiety/behavior issues prior to this, so this could just be an intensification of that.
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tunez33
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:41 pm

yep she acts this way during fireworks and bad storms, but the weather has been good over here lately in Rhode Island, and they're hasn't been loud noises outside of us putting up the new fence.

I have a vet appointment for Friday to see what's going on. The vet didn't think it was anything where she should be rushed in today. He actually suggested Skye could be potentially constipated as Renee had said. I went looking through the yard didn't notice any fresh poop and her stomach feels a little hard. It's not swollen, he suggested giving her some pumpkin for the next feel meals.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:48 pm

Yep pumpkin, and if she likes milk at all, I gave her milk too, and that seemed to loosen up things a bit. But that is Miya's behavior as well, when she has to go but can't, so I am hoping for you and Skye, that is what it is.
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PostSubject: Re: need advice   Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:37 pm

Just wanted to give everyone a quick update. Just left the vet, everything's normal on the blood work and X-rays. She does have pododermatitis on her front two paws from all the licking. Got some medicine to treat it and continue the foot baths I give her. She was a little gassy they said but most likely due to the fasting today to be sedated. Basically the vet said all the changes to the fence, house, and pododermatitis could have just sent a overly nervous dog to be more nervous. She said to focus on confidence building again. They gave me a prescription for trazadone for the next week or two to help with the anxiety.

They said it may be worth seeing a behaviorist if the problem persists. So basically I think I should buy some mouse traps incase there's something in the walls bothering her.
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