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 Growling and Snapping

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djannitto
Teenager
Teenager
djannitto

Male Join date : 2012-04-18
Location : New England

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PostSubject: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 11:14 am

Our puppy has growled at us and even snapped at us a few times recently. Mostly he does this when he's got something in his mouth that he's not supposed to and we try to get him to drop it. Since he is so food motivated, we can always get him to drop it by luring him with a treat. We are very concerned about the growling and snapping though. He is almost 10 months old and is definitely going through the teenage phase. Is this something that is common during this phase and will go away? Does anyone have any words of wisdowm?
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calliegirl08
Teenager
Teenager
calliegirl08

Female Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Central FL

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 11:21 am

Is it an aggressive growl or is it possible he's just playing? I know when we try to get our 1 year old lab to drop something, he thinks it's a game.

I'd practice some "Leave it, Take it." It should be easy since you said he's food motivated. If you can get him to take a toy or something he really likes, shake it around and get him playing. Then you can command leave it/drop it and offer a treat from your free hand. He'll probably let go of the toy to get the treat. Praise him heavily if he does. Then you can command "take it" and get him interested in the toy again. If you use a high reward treat, eventually he'll learn that it's much better to drop what he's got because he'll get a great treat for it. The idea is to make the treat more appealing than whatever he shouldn't have. Pieces of cheese or hot dog work with some people. In my case, Callie would do anything for an apple slice.

Our lab is so food motivated we don't even need high rewards, we just need any kind of treat and he's convinced to stop doing what he's doing so that might be the case for you too. If not, definitely go for the things he loves and doesn't usually get.
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djannitto
Teenager
Teenager
djannitto

Male Join date : 2012-04-18
Location : New England

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Basically those are the tactics we are using. And Q is so food motivated, that we too don't need high value food rewards. He'll drop for anything! What my husband and I are concerned about is that he is growling and snapping period. BTW - This is definitely not play.
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calliegirl08
Teenager
Teenager
calliegirl08

Female Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Central FL

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 1:09 pm

Hmm I'm not too sure then. I'd love to say he'll grow out of it but I'm not too sure. Perhaps bring it up to your vet and consider bringing in a trainer. A puppy that growls and snaps has temperament issues so it'd be best to nip it while he's young. A trainer might have a better way of dealing with these things.
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

Growling and Snapping Empty
PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 1:32 pm

Yeah this is something you need to start working on every day starting now. Growling and snapping is never ok where harm can be done, to you or another animal.

If you are 100% sure this isn't play, and the way in which you describe it it doesn't sound like play to me either, then I would definitely move this up to the top of my list.

Kelly and I dealt with this in a way when we first brought Ripley into our house. We had / have bones on the ground from time to time for our pups to gnaw on. When Ripley first arrived she claimed one such bone and would growl and bare fangs when ever another animal came close to her. This was unacceptable behavior for us.

2 months of working on it every chance we got and it is all gone. she no longer guards resources like that anymore.

In your case this is even worse as this guarding or disrespect is directed towards humans. You never know when some random person will make a move that triggers this behavior so working on it RIGHT NOW is the best way to go about it.

If it were me I would do the following, remember this is just what I would do... You need to find what works for you and your pup.

You said Q was very motivated by food. Then I would use a beef smoked marrow bone or some other high reward treat and reward it to him for what ever set of tricks I deemed acceptable.

I would then periodically place my hand close to or in between him and the bone nd issue a LEAVE IT or DROP IT. If he snapped, growled, bared teeth, or made ANY MOVE to protect it from me I would remove it from him without redirection, inform him he had done wrong "BAD DOG", and place him in time out.

I would wait a good amount of time until he was no longer fixated on it, and repeat the process over again.

If no move for protection was made at all I would remove my hand from the area, Praise "Good pup!", but I wouldn't touch him. Touching, petting, or moving them while eating can create a need to protect all over again, but lots of vocal praising can go a long way.


I would also begin hand feeding him for some time. This would allow the pup to get used to people being around his food bowl without him thinking that it is always going to be taken away from him.

If he is protecting a toy I would do the same thing with the toy as well. growling or guarding is never acceptable in our house hold. We have little kids around a lot who are on the floor and touch things they really never should. We have cats who like to be close to the dogs while they eat.

It make take some time but eventually the pup should begin to learn that just because you say to leave it or drop it they aren't going to lose the item. Infact most of the time they get it back. So to listen to you when you request it isn't a cause for protection. In due time this leaks over into everyday items they really shouldn't have.

I caught Ripley eating cat food last night. LEAVE IT, BAD GIRL, TIME OUT! is all I said. by the time I said leave it she was and pointed towards our bathroom she sulked into the room all by herself, leaving the cat food alone the instant I said something. they learn fast, you just need to be firm and demonstrate what they are doing is very very wrong and help them figure out what is right.

There is no longer any growling in our house hold over bones. Every now and again there is a bark of "YOU'RE TOO CLOSE BACK UP" but even these are few and far between as my two somehow enjoy swapping bones more then they enjoy arguing over whos is whos.

Keep at it and good luck,
~Chris~
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djannitto
Teenager
Teenager
djannitto

Male Join date : 2012-04-18
Location : New England

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Thank you Chris. You provided a lot of good information. As it is, I've been hand feeding Q since about June. We had some issues with him back then and immediately started with the hand feeding. Things got better very quickly, and we had a very calm summer with him. Once the heat and humidity left and the cooler temps came back, whch also cooincides with his teenage phase, he has been showing these bratty behaviors again. I am again hand feeding him. I can tell you that I can at any time take his food, water, toy, favorite rawhide, etc away from him without any problem. In fact, his manners during meal times is so good, that he won't touch his food until I tell him it's ok. He knows to sit and wait. This really ends up being a problem when he has something off limits.

I think working really hard on his "leave it" and "drop it" commands is essential.

FYI - Q goes to daycare twice a week, and the feedback we get is always great. He isn't aggressive towards other dogs at all. His biggest problem is that he wants to play so much and doesn't always pick up on other dogs cues that they are done. Unfortunately, that just isn't something my husband or I can teach him. He's only 9 months old, so he'll learn that from his puppy friends eventually.

Thanks again for your advice! Wish me luck!
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bcmorrow89
Newborn
Newborn


Female Join date : 2012-09-03
Location : Tennessee

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 2:48 pm

We had this problem and tried the hand feeding which turned into holding the bowl and feeding from that to normal feeding. Once normal feeding resumed the problem flared again (2 days ago). This time we are trying a more "Alpha" approach. When she has growled or snapped we have pinned her down by her neck and said "no" until she has stopped moving. It only took me one pin to get her to not do it to me again. My wife on the other hand... After the second pin Luna never squirmed or snarled, just started licking my wife's hand like "ok I'm sorry". We'll see how the next few days go, but that's what has worked for us.......so far haha
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Hayden_69
Senior
Senior
Hayden_69

Female Join date : 2011-12-26
Location : Alexandria, VA

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 3:01 pm

Hayden was snappy with my little sister when we first got him. Our private trainer told us to trade things with him. We would give him a toy or a bully stick and let him have it for a few minutes, then get hot dog, chicken breast, or roast beef and give it to him as we take his toy or bully stick. We would then give it back to him, so he views taking things from him is a good thing.
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Tika
The Long-Winded Canadian
Tika

Male Join date : 2011-08-11
Location : Montreal, QC

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 3:02 pm

To each their own.

You will in time learn what is best for your pup and understand how to read it and what works for them. Again that is why I stated my recommendations are only what I would do and if they help then I am extremely happy to have provided that.

Quote :
When she has growled or snapped we have pinned her down by her neck and said "no" until she has stopped moving. It only took me one pin to get her to not do it to me again.

Alpha rolling a pup however is not something to be taken on by most people.

Though I understand and agree negative reinforcement has it's place and time, for most dogs Alpha rolling is an extremely stressful and intense experience. It should only be done by someone who really really really understands their pup and only to break a fixation when nothing else is working, and even then at a last resort.

For most pups the only thing Alpha rolling really causes is added anxiety, fear, and triggers their instincts to fight back. This can, and has caused a great deal of injuries to both the pup and the person doing it on many occasions.


Again to each their own and if you find Alpha rolling works for you thats your call. The added risks, and chance for a bite that come from it however as well as the fear you normally instill while doing it lead me to never recommend it as a course of action myself.

~Chris~

_________________
Is this about the cake problem? What's the matter with you mathematicians, cake is never a problem. - Professor Lazlo
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bcmorrow89
Newborn
Newborn


Female Join date : 2012-09-03
Location : Tennessee

Growling and Snapping Empty
PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 3:10 pm

Tika wrote:



Alpha rolling a pup however is not something to be taken on by most people.

Though I understand and agree negative reinforcement has it's place and time, for most dogs Alpha rolling is an extremely stressful and intense experience. It should only be done by someone who really really really understands their pup and only to break a fixation when nothing else is working, and even then at a last resort.

For most pups the only thing Alpha rolling really causes is added anxiety, fear, and triggers their instincts to fight back. This can, and has caused a great deal of injuries to both the pup and the person doing it on many occasions.

~Chris~

I appreciate the input, however we've tried multiple things recommended directly to me from here and things we have researched from numerous places and they haven't really worked. I talked with the trainer who's class we are in here locally and at first he supported our attempts from what we found here. But after her constant relapsing, he said to try this. Gave us great advice on how to be careful in these situations.

Hopefully I wasn't coming across as a "Do what I'm doing and ignore everyone else". I was just simply giving my input and showing how sometimes certain things work for certain dogs. And please if anyone decides to take the road we are on now, I suggest searching thoroughly to see proper technique and how to react. But the best reactions we have had from Luna during this time has been alpha rolling with either a pin, or a 4-finger jab (not hard enough to hurt, just enough to get her attention). Even when she was nipping, yelling and walking away never worked. The only thing she responded to well was either holding her mouth closed or biting her ear.
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djannitto
Teenager
Teenager
djannitto

Male Join date : 2012-04-18
Location : New England

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PostSubject: Re: Growling and Snapping   Growling and Snapping EmptyThu Oct 25, 2012 4:35 pm

Qannik has been trained since he was 10 weeks old using Positive Reinforcement methods, and after speaking to his trainer about these kinds of issues, we continue to agree that we should try our best to stick to those methods. Her advice to us today is right in line with what Kelly and Chris suggested.

Thank you all for your input. I truly respect each person's advice and opinions. We all have to find what works best for our individual situation.

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