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 Systemic Marking

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Ocean
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2021-09-18

Systemic Marking Empty
PostSubject: Systemic Marking   Systemic Marking EmptySat Sep 18, 2021 12:29 pm

Hello all, new to the group here...

I have a 4 year old female Husky (Ocean), and there is an issue of what appears to be marking, but it's not all the time. Ocean will go for 3-4 months without an incident and then (like, now) she will get up in the middle of the night and drop about a 5" diameter spot on the rug by the back door where she is let out. It's not a gusher, and it's almost in the same spot, every time, night after night. Nowhere else in the house does she leave a 5" dia. spot, and we have left her in the house for up to 10 hours, and she will leave no 'real' mistakes. I have left her 6' leash on her for the entire day as an attempted deterrent, as well as basically ignoring her for the rest of the day, only pointing out the 5" dia spot. I also pull out her adolescent cage and she gets the spend the night 'in the box'. She is fully aware of this, as when I point to the fail, she lowers her head, drops her ears, and leaves the room to go sulk somewhere. The behavior eventually goes away, weeks, even months go by, and this whole cycle seems to unearth itself and we are back to the leash and the box.

Since spending time being mindful about this, I am wondering if there could be something outside that is making her mark? I know we have chipmunks under the house (and so does she, as she catches and eats them whenever she can, among other creatures in the backyard), but that's food, not another animal that could threaten her place in the pack. There is in fact one other dog in the house, but it's another female mutt, she's 9, both are spayed and get along together quite well. They play and frolic, share the water dish together, so I can't say that it's a dominance thing at this time. The other dog is largely submissive, and will walk away from her food dish if Ocean approaches it (we monitor that). Ocean understands her place in the 'pack' and occasionally tests the alpha (me) and I get that her modus operandi is to be leader of the pack, and to me, it's acceptable and actually quite fascinating, but improbable...

So, I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this type of behavior. I hate ignoring her, because I know how detrimental it is for her to be part of the pack. I welcome any thoughts or ideas... Thanks, T.
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aljones
Senior
Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Systemic Marking Empty
PostSubject: Re: Systemic Marking   Systemic Marking EmptySat Sep 18, 2021 1:03 pm

Oh, here I go again.  I have a habit of saying what I think and in this case, @ocean you're probably going to object.

Dogs live in the "now."  She might remember what she did five minutes ago, but much over that her response is going to be "You're mad at me and I don't understand why." because she can't tie the wet spot on the floor to your being upset.  To be able to correct her, you need to "catch her in the act" and I'd suggest putting her outside immediately!

Your punishment for her "marking" (more on that later) is bordering on cruelty.  Leaving a dog outside on a 6 foot is more than just "bordering on."  In some places that'll get you a ticket for animal abuse - when mine want out they're on a 30 foot lead.  Leaving her on a leash or in her crate is deterrent but not one from which she's going to learn to relate your being upset to the little puddle she left, possibly, hours ago.  It does stop her, admittedly, but it's not really teaching her anything.  Since my female tends to leave me wet spots overnight, she's in her crate until I let her out in the morning - does it teach her anything?  I don't think so but it saves me having to get the mop out before I've had coffee.

I have a female who "leaks" ( @amymeme, help, what's it called when the sphincter<?> doesn't seal right? ) basically, she has no control over it and seemingly no knowledge of it - when she's laying on my bed and relaxes, I'm going to end up with a small wet spot (that's what caught my eye, btw)

Even though she's spayed it's occurrence seems to follow what would be a heat cycle.  She'll go months with never a problem (wet bed) and then for a month or so I have to keep her off the bed.  I've noticed the same thing when I take her in the car with me, I'll have several quarter sized wet spots on the drivers seat - obviously she's moving around leaving spots ...

I have a vet appointment coming up and she (er, my vet) prescribed some medicine, pills, that help the problem.  The next step would be surgery but it's not that big a problem for me ... it's occasional, it's never a case of her "just letting go" (yellow river syndrome Smile ) and I'm pretty sure it's not intentional.  The intentional is where I don't let her out quick enough in the morning and I have a yellow lake in the kitchen!

Sky the female I spoke of --- well, I'm not too sure --- when we go out she'll cock a leg and mark things, just like my male.  I've even caught her marking things in the house occasionally and it's an obvious cock the leg up and mark!  There's a big difference between the spritz of a mark and the puddle of "I just couldn't hold it."  You're going to have to make that call.

Best of luck with trying a different approach ... I hope.

_________________
Systemic Marking GY3Hm5 Systemic Marking REEum5 Systemic Marking 2zERm5

“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”

Corey Ford
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amymeme
Senior
Senior
amymeme

Female Join date : 2013-12-20

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PostSubject: Re: Systemic Marking   Systemic Marking EmptySat Sep 18, 2021 3:14 pm

@aljones incontinent? Incompetent urinary sphincter?
With spayed female something an estrogen issue. Also bladder infection.
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Ocean
Newborn
Newborn


Join date : 2021-09-18

Systemic Marking Empty
PostSubject: Re: Systemic Marking   Systemic Marking EmptySat Sep 18, 2021 4:24 pm

Thank you for your reply. I think you have taken my 'punishment' out of context, as nowhere did I say I leave her outside on a 6' leash, that is incorrect. She just walks around all day with it connected to her in the house, but I will add she is free to walk anywhere she wants, and when I do in fact let her out, the leash obviously comes off, and she is free to roam the backyard and do what she pleases, as it's a fenced yard. As I said, it does affect her, but it's still happening, so I came here looking for other thoughts and ideas, seeking wisdom above and beyond my own...and I will never abuse her in any manner. She is an animal, and their thought process does not give a hoot about what we think or concern ourselves with, animals concentrate on survival, not human societal needs and wants.

That being said, I have researched about the heat cycle, and contemplated about that. That is viable, but my life partner and I work all day on certain days, (up to 10 hrs as noted in my post) and nothing. When I get home, she says hi, and quickly runs to the back door where she is immediately let out. It has NOT happened during the day at any time...only during the night. She has, on occasion, woken my up to let her out at 2am or so, which I praise her for despite waking me up from a solid slumber.

Oceans wet spots are in the same place (within a square foot), she only leaves them there. My life partner and I have agreed to get rid of the rug, and replace it with a new one, possibly foam to see if there is a rogue scent with that particular rug that she recognizes or believes that's the place to leave a mark.

Ocean never pee'd her crate until this morning, which threw out a host of other contemplations, so that is why I am here now.

Again, thank you for your reply, it is always appreciated..
T
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aljones
Senior
Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Systemic Marking Empty
PostSubject: Re: Systemic Marking   Systemic Marking EmptySat Sep 18, 2021 8:22 pm

You are indeed right, I misread what you said - almost entirely.  My apologies.

Since she's going to be sleeping overnight, you might want to consider leaving her in her crate while you all are asleep.  You mention that "Ocean never pee'd her crate until this morning" but glossed that over entirely.  My Sky won't let me know she wants out if she's crated - just makes a mad dash to the door when I let her out.  If this is a "one off" and it was a larger quantity of urine, it might be a case of "daddy (mommy?), I just can't hold it!"

If you Google "Punishing a dog after the fact" I think you'll get a better idea of what I was talking about.  The first two articles, pretty much, reiterate what I said previously.  Punishing them after the fact does little except confuse them.

Final comment, in my impression she isn't marking.  A dog typically won't "remark" its territory until another dog has marked over theirs.  Yes, it's territorial marking ... if her boundary is there, why would she need to mark it again.  The only reason that I can see for her using the same spot - especially by the door - is to tell you that she's having problems holding it all night - in which case I'd suggest a vet visit / discussion.

_________________
Systemic Marking GY3Hm5 Systemic Marking REEum5 Systemic Marking 2zERm5

“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”

Corey Ford
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aljones
Senior
Senior
aljones

Male Join date : 2014-08-18
Location : Terlingua, Texas

Systemic Marking Empty
PostSubject: Re: Systemic Marking   Systemic Marking EmptySun Sep 19, 2021 3:19 pm

I was cleaning up my "drug shelf" and ran across the bottle of pills that my vet had prescribed.  
Proin 25 mg chewable tablets  it's a prescription drug if you vet thinks it's applicable.  I bought them from 1800PetMeds for the $16.96 for 60 (twice a day) tablets.

I Sky's case they helped immensely - though "chewable" doesn't, in her case, mean "likable". I ended up using hot dog portions to get them into her.

_________________
Systemic Marking GY3Hm5 Systemic Marking REEum5 Systemic Marking 2zERm5

“Properly trained, a man can be dog’s best friend.”

Corey Ford
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