^ jynx

seattlesibe wrote:

^ jynx

Thats your choice, but honestly. It's just a bit of paper that proves that you have tons of money to waste... Over and out can an admin please remove my account, do not ban me I want it removed. Thank you.

blueeyedghost wrote:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when someone is clearly violating a set standard of ethical practices in breeding, saying so isn't really an opinion but is a fact.

And showing is the accepted method for proving that a dog is within the approved breed standard. I'm not just going to take someone's word for something, I want it backed up with indisputable proof.

I just wanted to expand on this just a little- if they do not show I feel they should at least prove their dogs in harness. Prove them to the function of the breed IF they do not want to prove them in the ring.

Though the thought that all dogs that go to shows get poisoned by 'psychopaths' is absurd. Don't leave your dogs unattended if you are that paranoid. I have met some wonderful people and grown friendships and learned so much from seasoned breeders/fanciers by going to dog shows.

Thanks for expanding on that one, Lani.

Well I do not live in the USA and those who work in harness with huskies where I am, treat people worse than a dog turd on the bottom of their shoe so my opinion of them is NOT very high either. Honestly I love my dogs to pieces but I doubt I will ever have another again because of the type of people who decide to try and associate with you if you have one (huskies that is). Too much to deal with, I have enough in my life with out the x y and z police.

Lyrril wrote:

There are some amazing dogs out there that have not been shown that would do an awesome job in the ring. If you know what your looking at. You don't have to confirm it to everyone if you know what your doing... I do not have too many dogs though, I only have 2. I don't want anything happening to them because some freak wants to poison them. I actually value their life over anything else and thats all thats important to me. Anything else comes later. My husky is spayed.. my malamute is and has been commented as a perfect example, I do not show her we do walk LOTS, she packs etc. But I do not feel the need to put my dogs at risk for anyone. My personal preference is to stay away. I've seen all too well what types of people are at these shows. Some of them are beautiful caring people, but they are tough cookies to deal with the emotional crap that they get. Rescue is the same, tough cookies, very tough cookies. I have many friends in rescue and the things they deal with and see, is unbelievable. But honestly, I don't see anything 'unethical' about breeding for a certain assetics which actually is conformation if you look at the whole picture. Is not the way our dog looks and is built up all part of it's conformation?
Well that is my opinion and everyone else is entitled to their own. But saying someone is unethical is an OPINION it doesn't make yours or mine correct because OPINIONS are personal to everyone.

I think I may have mis-spoken or been mis-interpreted in a previous post or something. If you don't want to show your dogs or work them at sledding & pulling, then you did the right thing by getting them spayed. Those comments were made with respect to asking why Snohomish doesn't do conformation shows if she's so intent on breeding them. So, I'm sorry if I mis-spoke or there was a mis-connection somewhere.

Conformation is for breeding more than just aesthetics - it's breeding for sound structure. Breeding for aesthetics, according to her website, is also breeding woolies, which isn't what the siberian huskies were intended for. There are a lot of good threads on here with a lot of (impartial) information on breeding. You can PM me if you can't find the ones I'm referring to, and I'd be more than happy to help.

Like I said before, please, please don't take any of this as an attack - everybody is asking the questions they're asking in order to learn. If there's something that Snohomish is doing with respect to their breeding practices that could help out others, we would more than appreciate her knowledge!

I know a fair few people considered 'ethical' that have woolies in their lines, my mouth is zipped shut I am not getting into it as I don't do slander. These same breeders breed for 'type' another way of saying I like this look so I am breeding for it. It's what breeders do, process of elimination..

Lyrril wrote:

Well she's not showing them so they wouldn't would they? But that doesn't mean her dogs don't have good conformation, you just have to look at them to see that clearly. As I stated if you KNOW what you are doing you will know what goes well together to produce the correct conformation. Do you think Ann would have passed her kennel to someone who didn't know what she was doing? I think not..

Is the person that runs the kennel a judge for AKC shows? If not, then I wouldn't peg her as an expert...

but if "ethical" pertains to the proper functionality and purpose of the breed and woolies fall outside of that realm..........

UndarthAngipoo wrote:

Lyrril wrote:

Well she's not showing them so they wouldn't would they? But that doesn't mean her dogs don't have good conformation, you just have to look at them to see that clearly. As I stated if you KNOW what you are doing you will know what goes well together to produce the correct conformation. Do you think Ann would have passed her kennel to someone who didn't know what she was doing? I think not..

Is the person that runs the kennel a judge for AKC shows? If not, then I wouldn't peg her as an expert...

Even if they are- it's so easy to become 'kennel blind' to your own lines to not be able to see your own dogs flaws.

Lyrril wrote:

Thats your choice, but honestly. It's just a bit of paper that proves that you have tons of money to waste... Over and out can an admin please remove my account, do not ban me I want it removed. Thank you.

I'm really sorry you feel this way - I was hoping the owner of the kennel could come and put some of our questions to peace and you'd be able to partake in that conversation. Hopefully you'll join up again in the future when you feel it's appropriate for you.

HuskyMom09 wrote:

UndarthAngipoo wrote:

Lyrril wrote:

Well she's not showing them so they wouldn't would they? But that doesn't mean her dogs don't have good conformation, you just have to look at them to see that clearly. As I stated if you KNOW what you are doing you will know what goes well together to produce the correct conformation. Do you think Ann would have passed her kennel to someone who didn't know what she was doing? I think not..

Is the person that runs the kennel a judge for AKC shows? If not, then I wouldn't peg her as an expert...

Even if they are- it's so easy to become 'kennel blind' to your own lines to not be able to see your own dogs flaws.

Very true - that would have been where my next point went towards. You guys are too quick for me... might be the weather here (frost warning tonight, FML)... Ok, I digress... but anyway... yeah...

The only thing that is happening by me replying to this, is serving to annoy the hell out of me. Quite honestly I could care less what people think. Everyone has their own set of standards. Snohomish is the first place I'd go to if I ever wanted another husky end of. I do not feel the need to elaborate any further.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't of gone on the offense in the first place.

A perfectly legitimate individual choice. Rigorous, breed-integrity driven standards are not going to appeal to every potential new puppy owner.

Lyrril wrote:

The only thing that is happening by me replying to this, is serving to annoy the hell out of me. Quite honestly I could care less what people think. Everyone has their own set of standards. Snohomish is the first place I'd go to if I ever wanted another husky end of. I do not feel the need to elaborate any further.

Nobody is saying you personally shall not be able to enter Snohomish if you ever wanted another husky, if you would like to ignore the opinions and facts presented, we're not going to shoot you. That is, and always will be, your choice. We are here to educate on proper breeding practices. But, and it's sad, I'm 100% sure that within my lifetime, there will be people who are irresponsible and breeding. If you choose to buy from that type of person, then all the more power to ya. If you are 100% with supporting a practice of this sort (even if it's because there may be something you know but we don't but you're withholding), then so be it.

BUT... for others out there who would like a sound puppy in all ways possible, this thread (and many, MANY others) are here for them.

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors and really hope you don't end up with a puppy with hip dysplasia, and, please if nothing else, say hello to the x, y, and z police for me.

seattlesibe wrote:

A perfectly legitimate individual choice. Rigorous, breed-integrity driven standards are not going to appeal to every potential new puppy owner.

I shouldn't laugh, but, tee hee!

Ha, that wasn't meant to be funny.... It's just true. Clearly, telling human beings there are negative consequences for your choices is rarely ever a motivator to act differently.

I care about my friend being called unethical. Of course I'm going to go on the offence as she is not. But now my post is being picked apart, see such a lovely community? * sarcasm fully intended* Also considering that they are the same lines as mine, well yeah none of mine have hip dysplasia.

Honestly I wish there had been forums like this when I was looking to buy my first Siberian- even my second! I'm glad to have been able to have decent mentors along the way to point me in a more ethical way. I'm glad to have learned without having to go through too much of the negative stuff that can come with purchasing from breeders that don't breed for health or quality.

However, when I purchased my first Siberian I never imagined that a few years from bringing him into my life I'd be running a Siberian team and doing all I do with my dogs. That being said it makes me sad that he can no longer participate thanks to his bad rear he was born with- that likely his parents gave him because the breeder didn't breed for proper structure, health, and soundness.

If you denote your friend being unethical when we called her breeding practices unethical, that is only going to serve your own chagrin, not ours.

Your posts are not being picked apart. There's a difference being picked apart and requesting to clarify. There are items that you consider "facts" in your posts that people were asking clarifying questions against - if that got your back up to a wall, then perhaps reconsider how much you know about her breeding practices. We're not going to pin you to a wall if you don't know everything she does - just don't claim the total opposite of the spectrum of what she herself and her website says. Like I said before, there's no real way to convey emotion *unless you use these things* and blatantly spell it out, so I think there was a lot of taking stuff personally with respect to the thread matter.

It's just in this particular context with this particular issue the charges fit, perfectly. This is not a refection of her personality or your association with her.

This conversation should be rerouted to new, incoming members searching for puppies and away from the camps invested on both sides of an issue that is not going to change or solicit any camp-jumping.

There are issues, principles, technical merits, and motivations/consequences for these involved in breeding pure bred dogs. (fact)

You have a choice to make in purchasing your puppy that either implicitly or explicitly has a great deal to do with these facts.

The standards do not go away because somebody either doesn't know about them or chooses to ignore them. Pure bred dogs have a purpose and a way of validating that purpose, especially in the case of working dogs where it has little to do with aesthetics; there are necessarily heated issues involved in maintaining them and arguing for them that are going to polarize people.

The people on one side are gonna seem like fascists and the people on the other are going to seem like non-chalant libertarians.

The fact remains that the standards and principle will not go away so long as pure bred dogs are valued and worth having around. Quality and selectivity have consequences, always.

This issue is bigger than and prior to personal sensitivities.

this escalated quickly.

It's all just text. I'm pretty sure nobody's punching holes in walls or taking medications