Plastics (supposedly) can release things over time. (Its why people say to not give water in plastic bowls-water would wear away the coating).

Wasn't I the one that told you about the snoebear connection? Lol

On some dogs it's not bad...just really not something I like lol. I don't find the loss of pigment very appealing in any dog. Just like Iddon't find fleshy colored noses appealing. Lol. Its why I am thankful that mechta has very dark pigment for a red.

Ha ha! I don't think so but maybe. I think, I was looking at Link's pedigree one day, but could be wrong. Lol.

If that's true about the bowls though, why doesn't it happen in all breeds? Or at least somewhat closely related breeds.

Just found this, sounds like the bowl thing and the snow nose are different.

Plastic Dish Nasal Dermatitis
This is a localized form of depigmentation that affects the nose and lips. It is caused by eating out of plastic and rubber dishes that contain the chemical p-benzylhydroquinone. This chemical is absorbed through the skin and inhibits the synthesis of melanin, the substance that produces dark pigment in the skin. The involved skin may also become irritated and inflamed.

Snow noseisa separate but common condition in which dark pigment on the nose fades during the winter months and darkens again in spring and summer. Complete depigmentation does not occur. Snow nose is seen in Siberian Huskies, Golden Retrievers, Labrador Retrievers, Bernese Mountain Dogs, and other breeds.

Source: http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/pigmentation-problems-nose-dogs

The genetics site said the depigmentation in some cases has stayed as the animal ages.

Niraya wrote:

Wasn't I the one that told you about the snoebear connection? Lol

I think you did actually. Sorry, sometimes I get all excited because I've learned like 3 things. Mostly from you.

Like I said I can't vouch for the validity of the plastic bowl claims.  Daytona ate and drank from plastic bowls for the eentirety of the 11.5 years she lived.  Bella/Mechta uses the same bowls Daytona had and I also have a second set of plastic bowls. Both are very dark pigmented still and Daytona never had any loss of pigment.  But that is just one example with only three dogs.

I personally feel it is a mix of environmental and genetics (think HD) as opposed to being environmental vs genetics.

Also, for what it is worth, Debbie's dogs are all extremely dark/heavily pigmented and I believe she hasn't experienced any snow nose or loss of pigmentation in her agoutis or KB dogs (I don't remember if anything was said about the monochrome blacks or not).  That isn't to say it can't happen just not something she has seen in her kennel.

Good point on the mix of environment and genetics. Could be predisposed to the chemical reaction, which is then triggered by an environmental factor. Genetics is very fascinating.

Niraya wrote:

I personally feel it is a mix of environmental and genetics (think HD) as opposed to being environmental vs genetics.

This is what I was thinking too. Genetics is so fascinating, but I always get stuck on the issue of causation because it won't ever be perfect. So where do we draw the lines of causation? The issue of "pre-disposition" even further complicates the whole story of causation.

I've had the exact same conversation in so many different circles about sexuality over the years, which gets very tricky.....won't go there here, but just illustrating that this basic issue has occupied my mind before and that this snow nose discussion has been enjoyable

So wait.....do one of you or both of you know Link's uncle??

Who is his uncle?

If we are talking about snoebear siberians I know the breeder- Tim. He livees on the other side of PA and is a professional handler so I see him at shows quite often.

wpskier222 wrote:

Btw, Link's sire is a snobear dog. Kylie's brother.

Ok.  Sorry, Link's aunt perhaps.  

That's cool you know the breeder.  Link's sire is Lance, Snobear's Dueling in Defiance.

(As an aside Jen, in 4 generations the doppelgangers have not a single dog in common)

I haven't seen lance personaly but I have seen a number of snoebear dogs.  The one Jen referenced, Kylie, belongs to a good friend of ours.

as an aside - that same friend just earned her championship (pending akc approval) on her friest show dog - another snoebear dog - Snoebear's Noir de Blanc.

seattlesibe wrote:

I repeat, we need an IAHT research grant!  Who is trained in grant writing around here?

*raises hand* I am. I'm in the middle of writing two at the moment, but those will be finished by the end of January. If someone can find a funding source, I would gladly pitch in. I have access to lab space too (for DNA/molecular stuff). Plus, it occurs in many other breeds, so figuring this out would benefit a lot more people/dogs (makes it easier to justify to the funding agency)

When I got Snoopy at seven months his nose was black, but during his first winter he got snow nose right down the middle. Our red doberman also developed snow nose, even though her nose was originally red because of her color, it turned pink on top. Nunya does not have snow nose and also has a red nose. Our GSD-hybrid had a pitch black nose and never developed snow nose during her short life either. My sister's GSR/rott doesn't have snow nose either, and her nose is either really dark brown or black. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some genetic predisposition to it, this is interesting!

Karli is over a year and hasn't developed snow nose. I thought it happened around that age so I was surprised when it didn't with her. Its cold here but no snow although Karli likes to sit outside during the day.

Is this a snow nose? Or a birth mark?

Hmm, snow nose is usually centered and pretty symmetrical. I've never heard of a birthmark on a dog on the nose but it could be.

Amy I don't know what that is other than super cute! I haven't seen it before on a husky but I have seen in on other dogs as puppies and most of them faded or went away as they grew up.

I have no idea what it is either! She was 9 months old here and Thank you! She was super cute then... Now, lol Different story hahahaha

But the "Mark" went up into her nose as she grew older. It never disappeared or just went away. If you look at her you don't see it till you get up and close to her and you look up into her nose lol and it is still there.

Could you take an up close of her nose? I think it would be really cool to see how it changed.

hmmm.... let me see if i can do this, this is going to be hard hahaha she doesn't like taking pictures nor standing still. Challenged excepted! 

Treats are amazing! lol Here is what it looks like now

Right side is the liver color and the left side has that "pink birth mark"

Wow it really faded away. Or many it stayed the same size and her nose just grew.   Also congrats on being able to get that challenge done. My dog loves to be super cute until I grab the camera.

Agree most of the time I get a blur and in the background you see two yellow dots, they are eyes... that is my malamute wondering why she is getting treats and not her  

I'd like to toss in a few comparison pictures of Lycus lol

This was earlier this summer, and as you can see, his nose is completely black.



And this is earlier this week, where you can see pink pigments. Lmao, ignore the unhappy birthday face. That hat did not last haha.

Pfft. that birthday pic...wow

So there are clear examples of seasonal and non-seasonal snow-nosery, just for the record.