MelissaI wrote:

Huskyluv wrote:

Here is another really good starting out guide for transitioning to raw...

http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/

I also edited the original post to include this link as well.

That article is awesome! I gave Mya a little bit of Kody's ground beef yesterday with her kibble and she threw it up. Oops, after reading this I see why now..lol.

I want to start giving Mya raw chicken so that she can get the benefit of the bones cleaning her teeth. I've noticed that she has some tartar starting to build up (not good!). My question is...if, lets say, i feed her chicken today is it ok to feed her kibble tomorrow? Or is that a no no?

We were at a grand opening with our husky represented as the store's favorite rescue and there were a couple of people who commented on Ginger's teeth looking very clean and brite-white...she was starting to have tartar build up and now, after feeding raw chicken with bones, her teeth are looking a whole lot better!

I saw that article too, and read through the first part.

I'm a little confused to this statement:

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Commit To Change

Make the switch, cold turkey, no pun intended! You do not want to start off your dog on raw feeding while still eating kibble. The two do not mix well together because it “confuses” the body about what it’s digesting. Feeding raw and kibble at the same time causes digestive upset and it is not recommended.
-----

Does this mean I'm doing it wrong when I give Ginger her a wing or drummette and a chicken neck with her THK? I'm also giving her a little kibble with her THK with her other 2 meals (I feed breakfast, lunch and dinner to Ginger).

She hasn't vomited or has had diarreha, and her BMs are firm and formed. No mucous (except the occasional and that usually can almost always be explained). And when the mucous does appear around part of her BMs, it's usually gone by her next BM as I already know what has caused it.

MelissaI wrote:

I want to start giving Mya raw chicken so that she can get the benefit of the bones cleaning her teeth. I've noticed that she has some tartar starting to build up (not good!). My question is...if, lets say, i feed her chicken today is it ok to feed her kibble tomorrow? Or is that a no no?

You can feed kibble and raw in the same day if you want to. There is a lot of debate over whether feeding kibble and raw together is good or bad and at the end of the day I, nor many others, can see any benefits or drawbacks to feeding them separate or together. I've fed them together on many occasions and never had a problem. Kristina has also fed (Cheyenne, I think?) kibble and raw together and not had an issue as far as I know. The issue with feeding kibble and raw together is mainly that they digest at different rates. Raw digests a lot faster while kibble takes much much longer. There seems to be a consensus among most that kibble and raw are best fed as separate meals. So you could do kibble for breakfast and raw for dinner as an example or switch it up, however you prefer.

cmanding wrote:

Does this mean I'm doing it wrong when I give Ginger her a wing or drummette and a chicken neck with her THK? I'm also giving her a little kibble with her THK with her other 2 meals (I feed breakfast, lunch and dinner to Ginger).

No, you are absolutely NOT doing anything wrong. THK is different from kibble and is designed to be fed with raw. That is one of the things I love about THK is that it is so versatile, you can easily mix it with kibble, canned, homecooked or raw and be perfectly fine. In my honest opinion I think it's okay to feed kibble and raw together despite what many people say. I've done it many times and never had a problem with my dogs. And even when the majority says to feed them separate, the way you're feeding raw as a separate meal is perfectly fine. Now if you were to start having issues then that could be something to consider, but since Ginger is doing well so far I think your feeding plans are just fine.

Also realize that this is one person's website where they wrote out their views. While the views overall are pretty good, there are things that people will disagree on. I'm on a dog food forum (the same forum as the fella that wrote that guide you quoted your concerns about) and there are plenty of people who feed kibble and raw in the same day but as separate meals.

I don't mean for you to take each site for every little detail, it's mainly the overall guide that I mean to share. Feeding kibble and raw together is a heavily debated topic that I honestly wonder if we will ever see an end to. Where his advice to switch cold turkey would be more appropriate is for someone who is ready and willing to jump head first into PMR feeding, not someone who is easing into raw slowly or just supplementing a diet with raw.

I promise you, I would let you know if I ever thought something was questionable about your feeding schedule with Ginger!

Thanks Val!
As it is with Ginger right now, she gets all but 3 heaping tablespoons of Orijen a day. So I didn't think it would be a big deal, but just wanted to run it past you and get your opinion.

I do plan to graduate her to a thigh or drumstick in the next week or so and that will be a meal on it's own.

Yep, such a little amount is very unlikely to be of issue. Can't wait to hear how she does on the new chicken parts!

Oh ok, good! I don't want to take Mya off of her reduced calorie kibble just yet, but I know that the chicken will be good for her. I'll probably give her kibble in the morning and the chicken in the evening.

I also read that chicken necks and drumsticks are too small for large dogs since they can swallow them whole. I know that many people on here do. Ms. Ginger has done fine with the drumette and neck too so it's just a matter of whether your dog chomps down his/her food or not. I think Mya would definitely chew it, but Kody might not. I'm going to hold it for him at first, but it makes me nervous to let him eat it alone

I bought all the chicken today since it was buy one get free for the family packs! So, I got drumettes and leg quarters also. I've never seen my freezer with so much chicken..lol!

MelissaI wrote:

I bought all the chicken today since it was buy one get free for the family packs! So, I got drumettes and leg quarters also. I've never seen my freezer with so much chicken..lol!

LOL I buy about 40 lbs of chicken at a time. Currently have 30 lbs in there right now with 10 lbs of turkey, 20 lbs of beef, and 4 lbs of ground turkey. I have meat in my fridge, my freezer in the house, and my 15 cu ft freezer in the garage.

Hopefully you have an extra freezer?!

Oh My!!! Ummm, yeah I think I might need an extra freezer for sure!!!!! LOL!!!!!!! Time to start searching!

How long does raw take to digest vs. kibble?

I've been throwing some raw chicken into Storm's kibble when there's too much meat on Ginger's drumstick/thigh. He eats the chicken first and he'll check to see if there's more before he continues to eat his kibble.

I know kibble takes longer to digest vs. raw, but wanted to know if anyone knew how long it took raw to digest.

Also, should I not be throwing raw chicken in with kibble at all since they digest at different rates?

I believe the commonly accepted digestion rate for kibble is about 12 hours and the digestion rate for raw is about 4 hours. Please correct me if I am wrong anyone.

Many people advise keeping raw and kibble feeding separate due to the different rates of digestion. However this is something that has been debated on forums and many people have fed raw and kibble together with no ill effects. Even I have fed small amounts of raw and kibble together over the years and I've never had a problem. So I really don't think it will be a problem, I personally would be comfortable doing what you've been doing with the raw chicken with Storm's kibble but that's just me. I know others would not agree so really it's up to you. I've done it and I believe Kristina has too and neither of us has had a problem.

I haven't had a problem with it either so far, and last night I threw in a 2 oz meaty chicken thigh bone with his kibble, and he was fine. (This isn't something I'll do at every dinner for him - not right now).

I think Storm is going to take to raw like a natural, as he goes for the raw food first over his kibble...or maybe that's because of his Nupro...but he's good at chewing/crunching down the bone before swallowing. In any case, I also use Stella & Chewy's freeze dried raw patties as treats for my 2, and he likes it.

It's just bits and pieces here and there for Storm right now, and I know I could do raw for his weight loss, but I think I'll wait another month and see where his weight is at then before I start introducing any more raw into his diet.

Thanks!

Hi Everyone,

I have just the made the switch to RAW, 2 weeks ago. NERO liked it, and it was chicken I gave him for every meal up until yesterday, when NERO refused to ate more chicken.

Confused, I gave him some red meat (BEEF) and I can say he liked it.

My question, is it common for a dog to refuse raw chicken? I usually give NERO chicken wing, neck, drumstick, organs, chicken meat, well almost anything except the legs, head, and bottom.

Oh and I have tried to feed him FISH, and he ate it, though he was struggling, and I thin he didnt like it.

Any advices will be appreciated :-)

Is Nero otherwise fine? By that I mean firm BMs, eating,drinking and behaving normally?

I wouldn't fuss over a single incident. Most people ease into raw a little slower and stick with one food for a month before introducing other protein sources and organs. From the sounds of it you've dived right in and been feeding varied protein sources and organ?

When he refuses the chicken, he does accept other foods like the beef it sounds like you offered him? If he's still got his appetite he might just be looking for a change, hopefully not getting picky or dealing with stomach upset.

I honestly wouldn't worry about a one time thing, but do keep an eye on him and see if it continues and also pay attention to his appetite, behavior, and BM's to see if anything else goes off. I'd give him more time and then update after a few days assuming he seems otherwise healthy.

THanks Huskyluv,

Yep, Nero is fine, Seems nothing wrong with him.

Regarding his meal, yes he has tried different varied protein sources, but mostly chicken. His first week was strictly on meaty bones only. I started to mix-in the organ on the second week, and he did just fine.

I just gave him BEEF yesterday because he seemed to refuse chicken.

I guess I'll wait and see, and will post here on his progress in a few days.

Hope he is fine :-)

What is BM, btw?

QUOTE: What is BM, btw?

Bowel movement= took a dump

Thanks

Thank you for this great resource. I have been thinking of switching Sky to home made meals of some sort when she got older, because I've read that it can hurt dogs in the long term to not give them the right nutrients while they are growing puppies. After reading some of these articles on PMR, I think I may try the switch after she finishes up the bag of kibble I just bought.

This is a great thread. I never even thought about giving Libby a raw piece of any meat. I just kept thinking it had to be cooked to stop her from getting sick. But like you said its what they would eat in the wild.
Is it ok to feed cooked meat? I hate the idea of raw chicken juice in the house, my neice is only one and is over and i don't want to miss something and she gets sick.
Is it ok to cut it up into pieces instead of whole?
With Thanksgiving coming up our local stores throw turkey on sale for under .50 cents a pound which is really cheap. Do you buy, and cut it up then freeze it?
I am going to look into some of those books you mentioned.
Thanks for the great info.

libbybell74 wrote:

Is it ok to feed cooked meat? I hate the idea of raw chicken juice in the house, my neice is only one and is over and i don't want to miss something and she gets sick.

Yes, it is okay to feed cooked meat. Most of us prefer to feed it raw because it retains more nutrients that way but there's nothing wrong with cooking it instead if you prefer. It tends to smell more appetizing when cooked anyway so it may stimulate her appetite a bit more if the meat is cooked. Just remember that when it comes to bone, it should ONLY ever be fed raw. Cooked bones are a hazard so if you do decide to feed cooked meat, be sure it is boneless.

libbybell74 wrote:

Is it ok to cut it up into pieces instead of whole?

Yes, it is perfectly fine to feed cooked or raw meat that has been cut into pieces. This works especially well if you're mixing it with kibble.

libbybell74 wrote:

With Thanksgiving coming up our local stores throw turkey on sale for under .50 cents a pound which is really cheap. Do you buy, and cut it up then freeze it?

That's what I do. Since when I buy the meat it's already thawed. If you don't cut it up before freezing then you'll have to thaw the whole bird before you can piece it out which would certainly make more work...for me at least. Plus, the less times you have to thaw and refreeze the meat the better.

Once you thaw out food, meat especially, you should NOT refreeze it! I forget exactly why, but once thawed, you'll need to cook it within 48 hours before it starts to go bad, especially poultry. Once you cook it, you need to consume it within 4-5 days....I usually consume within 3-4 days then toss it. But I've read that refridgerated foods can be kept up to 7 days if your fridge is kept cold.

Thank you, I am going to try this this weekend. We have some sales going on, so a great time to buy. This all just sounds better for her and maybe will help increase her appetite and give her more energy. She seems to tire out fast when we go on long runs or hikes.

cmanding wrote:

Once you thaw out food, meat especially, you should NOT refreeze it! I forget exactly why, but once thawed, you'll need to cook it within 48 hours before it starts to go bad, especially poultry.

I've heard the same thing over and over but can never remember the reasoning. But I'll be honest, I've refrozen meat on many occasions not only for us but the dogs also and have never had an issue. Granted I know I'm not supposed to but it's never been an issue so I still do it. If you remember the reasoning please remind me! lol

Huskyluv wrote:

cmanding wrote:

Once you thaw out food, meat especially, you should NOT refreeze it! I forget exactly why, but once thawed, you'll need to cook it within 48 hours before it starts to go bad, especially poultry.

I've heard the same thing over and over but can never remember the reasoning. But I'll be honest, I've refrozen meat on many occasions not only for us but the dogs also and have never had an issue. Granted I know I'm not supposed to but it's never been an issue so I still do it. If you remember the reasoning please remind me! lol

I gotta look it up because I can't remember! Once I find the reason, I'll let you know

Refreezing is bad for three reasons. First, by refreezing food you multiply the damage to it--any cells that escaped rupture the first time the food was frozen are at risk of being ruptured the second time. Second, when food has been frozen and thawed out, it has larger pockets of liquid within it than the first time due to the ruptured cells. When the food is refrozen, the larger pockets of liquid can freeze into much larger ice crystals, which can tear through many more cell membranes and lead to more damage to the food. (The best way to avoid cell damage, incidentally, is flash-freezing, which produces smaller ice crystals, minimal cell damage, and maximum freshness.)

The third and most important reason not to refreeze is increased risk of spoilage due to microorganisms. Many people thaw food by letting it sit at room temperature for several hours, giving the microorganisms in it time to get busy and partially spoil the food before it's refrozen. The problem is particularly pronounced in large pieces of meat such as a turkey, some parts of which may be at or near room temperature for hours during thawing. That's why turkeys should be thawed in a sink filled with water--the water equalizes the temperature and makes for faster thawing. Alternatively, you can thaw in the refrigerator, which is slower but retards spoilage by keeping the meat cool. Even so you're likely to have some multiplication of microorganisms. If you refreeze and rethaw, you've subjected the food to double the microorganism growth and double the fun.

If you must refreeze food that has been thawed in a warm place (or which has remained thawed in a cold place for a long time), you should cook the food properly first, then refreeze it. Even under the best circumstances, however, multiple freezing cycles aren't recommended. If you can't finish the food yourself, you're better off giving it to your household garbage disposal.

Thanks Cladia.
I was state certified in food service for over 10yrs and I dont do that anymore and couldn't think of the reason either.
I buy fresh food and vacuum seal it then freeze it. Lasts a long time.
I'm going to try some raw this weekend, hope she likes it.